• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

Ewald von Kleist has died


anewbeginning

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
4,628

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
52,059
He told his father aged 22 that he planned to kill Hitler with a suicide vest. In the event the expected meeting attended by Hitler didn't happen so it had to be called off. RIP.
 

Upper Chamber

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
587
Brave man, had he suceeded his actions might well have helped save millions. R.I.P.
 

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
Brave man, had he suceeded his actions might well have helped save millions. R.I.P.
Not necessarily.

With Hitler gone the likes of Bormann, Goering, Himmler, Goebbels and Keitel would have been left twisting in the wind and the likely successors would have been the same leaders of the July plot with Generaloberst Ludwig Beck as President, Carl Friedrich Goerdeler as Chancellor, Generalfeldmarschall Erwin von Witzlebe as C in C of the Wehrmacht and Henning von Tresckow as Chief of Police according to the Valkryie plan put together by Von Stauffenberg in 1943.

The position of the Germans was more favorable in January 1943 than July 1944 when Von Stauffenberg launched his failed bomb attack that also narrowly killed Hitler.

This is how things stood in January 1944.



The Russians were poised to push the Germans out of the Soviet Union and invade Eastern Europe while the Americans and the British were 6 months away from invading Western Europe.

The Allies had already agreed on the demand for an unconditional surrender while the Third Reich would probably have been torn apart by a civil war between the SS and the German Army. The Eastern Front might have collapsed as Stalin took full advantage and Eastern Europe and all of Germany might have been overrun before the Western Allies could land in France.

The British and American might found themselves meeting the Soviets on the Rhine rather than at the Elbe with Denmark, the Netherlands, Austria, Northern Italy and Greece also in Soviet hands.
 
Last edited:

anewbeginning

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
4,628
The motives of the plotters were mixed. Some hardliners thought he was losing them the war which he indeed was as he was by now completely irrational and seemed hell bent on destroying Germany.

I think most of them wanted to save Germany. They wanted peace with the Allies after Hitler was dead. The problem was the Russians who wanted to finish the war with the complete destruction of Germany so that it could never again threathen them. The Russians probably wouldn't have cared if Hitler was dead or not, they would have kept fighting all the way to Berlin.
 

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
52,059
I must be honest - while killing Hitler might have helped, we should remember that the reason the conspirators decided to Kill Hitler was because he was losing them the war.
Well Stauffenberg is supposed to have become a conspirator from the time he heard of the massacres of Jews, according to a documentary about the conspiracy I saw some years back.
 

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
Well Stauffenberg is supposed to have become a conspirator from the time he heard of the massacres of Jews, according to a documentary about the conspiracy I saw some years back.
The attitudes of the German Army officers was not too dissimilar from the attitudes of their predecessors in World War I who also conquered Russia. The likes of Stauffenberg and Von Treskow and other other conspirators did not agree with mass murder but they were still ultra nationalistic, had arrogant aristocratic disdain for conquered peoples like the Poles and Slavs deemed inferior to Germans and were anti-Bolshevik to the hilt.
If Hitler and the Nazis had never rose to power it is likely there still would have been a right wing militarist regime in Germany though not as fanatical.
The plan Hitler actually used for the invasion of Russia was a contingency plan drawn up during the Weimer Republic.
After the defeat in 1918 Germans with or without Hitler would have sought to rebuild their country and become militarily powerful again.
That still does not take away from the courage of the men who tried and failed to kill Hitler or the heart break that they failed and might have prevented the slaughter that occurred in the last year of the war.
 

Carl Claudius

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
1,263
The last of the 20th July Conspirators, Ewald von Kleist has died.

He took part in the noble but ultimately doomed attempt to assassinate Hitler in July of 1944 and put an end to the war.

Ewald von Kleist - Telegraph

Had the conspiracy been successful history might have been utterly changed and the war possibly shortened.

An interesting interview with him in Der Speigel

Last of the July 20 Plotters: 'There Will Be Another Hitler Some Day' - SPIEGEL ONLINE
no one loves a traitor.
 

Carl Claudius

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
1,263
Brave man, had he suceeded his actions might well have helped save millions. R.I.P.
millions of lives would have been saved if the warmonger Churchill was not around and the Brits made peace with the Germans who had no beef with them. the Germans had nothing but admiration for the Brits and irritated our neighbours by trying to copy them- idea of being a superior race, empire etc.
 

james toney

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
15,978
Many will have seen the site,but it might be of interest to others,including various images(then and now) of the Wehrmacht HQ, Site of July Plotters' Execution (Bendler Block).

Traces of Evil: Various Sites in Berlin (1)
 

Tawdy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
4,532
millions of lives would have been saved if the warmonger Churchill was not around and the Brits made peace with the Germans who had no beef with them. the Germans had nothing but admiration for the Brits and irritated our neighbours by trying to copy them- idea of being a superior race, empire etc.


Auld carl here, the gift that keeps on giving! :roll:
 

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
millions of lives would have been saved if the warmonger Churchill was not around and the Brits made peace with the Germans who had no beef with them. the Germans had nothing but admiration for the Brits and irritated our neighbours by trying to copy them- idea of being a superior race, empire etc.
If the British had made peace with Hitler the result would have been a puppet government in London rather like that in Vichy France with the resources of the British Empire now utilized for the German war machine.

The consequences would have been dire for Ireland because the Germans would have implemented Plan Green and conquered us.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
31,954
If Hitler and the Nazis had never rose to power it is likely there still would have been a right wing militarist regime in Germany though not as fanatical.
Using that logic, the same should have happened once West Germany became independent. Its a mistake to underestimate the power of a dictator, nothing is inevitable, especially when it comes to governments of nation states.
 

bye bye mubarak

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
3,454
Well Stauffenberg is supposed to have become a conspirator from the time he heard of the massacres of Jews, according to a documentary about the conspiracy I saw some years back.
He must have heard about the Death camps, and he was ok with hitler until the war started to turn around. He would have taken an oath to hitler, I think it was all wbout self preservation.
No sympathy for dead Nazis, preter to remember Sophie Scholl.
 

freewillie

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,491
Not necessarily.

With Hitler gone the likes of Bormann, Goering, Himmler, Goebbels and Keitel would have been left twisting in the wind and the likely successors would have been the same leaders of the July plot with Generaloberst Ludwig Beck as President, Carl Friedrich Goerdeler as Chancellor, Generalfeldmarschall Erwin von Witzlebe as C in C of the Wehrmacht and Henning von Tresckow as Chief of Police according to the Valkryie plan put together by Von Stauffenberg in 1943.

The position of the Germans was more favorable in January 1943 than July 1944 when Von Stauffenberg launched his failed bomb attack that also narrowly killed Hitler.

This is how things stood in January 1944.



The Russians were poised to push the Germans out of the Soviet Union and invade Eastern Europe while the Americans and the British were 6 months away from invading Western Europe.

The Allies had already agreed on the demand for an unconditional surrender while the Third Reich would probably have been torn apart by a civil war between the SS and the German Army. The Eastern Front might have collapsed as Stalin took full advantage and Eastern Europe and all of Germany might have been overrun before the Western Allies could land in France.

The British and American might found themselves meeting the Soviets on the Rhine rather than at the Elbe with Denmark, the Netherlands, Austria, Northern Italy and Greece also in Soviet hands.
"With Hitler gone the likes of Bormann, Goering, Himmler, Goebbels and Keitel would have been left twisting in the wind"

Swinging in the wind would have been preferable.
 

freewillie

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,491
He must have heard about the Death camps, and he was ok with hitler until the war started to turn around. He would have taken an oath to hitler, I think it was all wbout self preservation.
No sympathy for dead Nazis, preter to remember Sophie Scholl.
Like all the other Germans he hadnt heard about the death camps. Its just as well Dr Fuhrerr hadnt heard about them or there would have been hell to pay
 

freewillie

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,491
If the British had made peace with Hitler the result would have been a puppet government in London rather like that in Vichy France with the resources of the British Empire now utilized for the German war machine.

The consequences would have been dire for Ireland because the Germans would have implemented Plan Green and conquered us.
But wouldn't Sean Russell and his IRA Nazi loving pals have saved us
 
Top