Ex diplomat Sean Donlon's instructions to SF for Irish Unity

Glenshane4

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Self-serving, mythological Sinn Féin claptrap from beginning to end.
Do you deny that Garret Fitzgerald was an enemy of the oppressed Catholic people of Northern Ireland? Do you deny that his mother was a Prod?
 


cricket

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Garret and Thatcher had a similar view of the IRA and SF.They wanted a political defeat of SF and a military defeat of the IRA. They were happy to exclude republicans from any solution even if it prolonged the war. It was only after Garret and Maggie were removed from the scene and more sensible players took power that peace could be given a chance. It was noticeable that once FG took power again that the peace process collapsed. Bertie and Blair had a very different take on peace to Garret and Maggie or Bruton, its not rocket science to see what happened. The SDLP were convenient pawns to be used by the Irish government when they wanted to fight SF and the were dropped live a hot spud when it suited, useful fools many would think.
Another awjaysus moment. The peace process didn't happen overnight. Much of it was built on Sunningdale and the Anglo-Irish treaty of the mid 80's, both while fg-lab coalitions were in power in the ROI. Haughey was so jealous of the progress made by the Anglo-Irish treaty, he sent Linehan to the US to campaign against it. Ted Kennedy, Tip O'Neill and the others grabbed Linehan by the scruff of the neck and sent him back home with a huge flea in his ear. Haughey never again voiced opposition to it.
Indeed, if you go back further, Lynch was the first Taoiseach to persuade Britain that the north was not an internal UK issue and could not be resolved without ROI involvement.
Don't let that stop you from raving though.
 

hollandia

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Another awjaysus moment. The peace process didn't happen overnight. Much of it was built on Sunningdale and the Anglo-Irish treaty of the mid 80's, both while fg-lab coalitions were in power in the ROI. Haughey was so jealous of the progress made by the Anglo-Irish treaty, he sent Linehan to the US to campaign against it. Ted Kennedy, Tip O'Neill and the others grabbed Linehan by the scruff of the neck and sent him back home with a huge flea in his ear. Haughey never again voiced opposition to it.
Indeed, if you go back further, Lynch was the first Taoiseach to persuade Britain that the north was not an internal UK issue and could not be resolved without ROI involvement.
Don't let that stop you from raving though.
Not a clue. The peace process of the nineties has absolutely no relationship with sunningdale whatsoever. And well you know it.
 
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Cahal

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P1ssy little commentary there. Hume sacrificed the SDLP for the good of his country. He brought SF/IRA in from the political doghouse knowing that they would be a political risk to his party. The SDLP and the UUP and not the current frauds were the parties that brought about the GFA.
Tell me how the SDLP would have delivered most of the PIRA to the negotiation table. Or the UUP bring the UVF for that matter?
 

cricket

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Not a clue. The peace process of the nineties has absolutely no relationship with sunningdale whatsoever. And well you know it.
No relationship, except for similarities in areas like power-sharing, north-south bodies, etc. About 2,000 deaths later.
 

hollandia

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No relationship, except for similarities in areas like power-sharing, north-south bodies, etc. About 2,000 deaths later. and loyalists not being permitted to pull it down.
Fixed that for ya. As I said, clueless.
 

NMunsterman

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No relationship, except for similarities in areas like power-sharing, north-south bodies, etc. About 2,000 deaths later.
Claiming that Sunningdale and the GFA have similarities is the equivalent of claiming that Usain Bolt and the hunchback of Notre Dame have similarities.

Wise up.
 

cricket

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Fixed that for ya. As I said, clueless.
Probably down to the fact that loyalist paramilitaries had had enough of Paisley, famous press conference where they rattled him about living in a big house, having massive salaries, etc.
The power-sharing and north-south bodies were taken as read simply because they were such an integral part of sunningdale. Otherwise, they would have been aspirational and probably would have been insurmountable blockages.
 

cricket

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Claiming that Sunningdale and the GFA have similarities is the equivalent of claiming that Usain Bolt and the hunchback of Notre Dame have similarities.

Wise up.
I refer you to post no. 188.
 

hollandia

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Probably down to the fact that loyalist paramilitaries had had enough of Paisley, famous press conference where they rattled him about living in a big house, having massive salaries, etc.
The power-sharing and north-south bodies were taken as read simply because they were such an integral part of sunningdale. Otherwise, they would have been aspirational and probably would have been insurmountable blockages.
What you are missing from your "analysis" is the fact that the gfa involved the protagonists. Sunningdale was the equivalent of trying to fix apartheid by having talks with Bolivia. Other than that, and the fact the are no other similarities, you are spot on...
 

mangaire2

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No relationship, except for similarities in areas like power-sharing, north-south bodies, etc. About 2,000 deaths later.
no relationship-
because one of the objectives of Sunningdale was the demise of Sinn Fein,
while Sinn Fein were fully involved & essential to the development of the Peace Process.

& much of the Political/Media establishment who had been cheer leaders for Sunningdale,
were bitter opponents of the Peace Process, until they discovered that they were fighting a lost cause,
indeed some of em are still bitter at the success of the Peace Process.
 

edwin

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no relationship-
because one of the objectives of Sunningdale was the demise of Sinn Fein,
while Sinn Fein were fully involved & essential to the development of the Peace Process.

& much of the Political/Media establishment who had been cheer leaders for Sunningdale,
were bitter opponents of the Peace Process, until they discovered that they were fighting a lost cause,
indeed some of em are still bitter at the success of the Peace Process.
If the only difference between sunningdale and gfa is involvement of SF then there was 20 years of war for what??
 

cricket

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no relationship-
because one of the objectives of Sunningdale was the demise of Sinn Fein,
while Sinn Fein were fully involved & essential to the development of the Peace Process.

& much of the Political/Media establishment who had been cheer leaders for Sunningdale,
were bitter opponents of the Peace Process, until they discovered that they were fighting a lost cause,
indeed some of em are still bitter at the success of the Peace Process.
Apart from declaring their unconditional support for the IRA's sectarian murder campaign and declaring in every new year's message that that year would be the one when the brits would go home, SF didn't really engage with the political process. Thousands of deaths later, they settled for sunningdale mark 2, brits still around though. Oh, and quite a few of the provos had handy sidelines as MI6 employees, some of them may still have.
Bás in Éireann how are ye.
 

mangaire2

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If the only difference between sunningdale and gfa is involvement of SF then there was 20 years of war for what??
have you seen/heard Seamus Mallon or Austin Currie in recent years & how bitter & twisted both ol geezers are ?
I know, I know - despite the support they got from the Southern political/establishment, the SDLP have become largely irrelevant.
but is that justification for the extreme bitterness ?
 

edwin

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have you seen/heard Seamus Mallon or Austin Currie in recent years & how bitter & twisted both ol geezers are ?
I know, I know - despite the support they got from the Southern political/establishment, the SDLP have become largely irrelevant.
but is that justification for the extreme bitterness ?
I haven't seen much of Currie thankfully but Mallon is certainly bitter. To be fair I'd say he's more bitter against the Hume faction of the SDLP than anyone else!

He did have some justification for his jibe about Sunningdale though. If the only difference is in who's inside the tent then that accepts the actual structures are the same which PIRA so vehemently rejected at the time.
 

mangaire2

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Apart from declaring their unconditional support for the IRA's sectarian murder campaign and declaring in every new year's message that that year would be the one when the brits would go home, SF didn't really engage with the political process. Thousands of deaths later, they settled for sunningdale mark 2, brits still around though. Oh, and quite a few of the provos had handy sidelines as MI6 employees, some of them may still have.
Bás in Éireann how are ye.
"IRA's sectarian murder campaign" !!!!!

no problem though when it came to Stickie "SF/IRA" joining with & effectively taking over the Labour Party'

anyway - give my regards to Kathleen Lynch & her inlaws & outlaws, next time you meet them at a Labour/Stickie "SF/IRA" Cumann meeting.
 

mangaire2

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I haven't seen much of Currie thankfully but Mallon is certainly bitter. To be fair I'd say he's more bitter against the Hume faction of the SDLP than anyone else!

He did have some justification for his jibe about Sunningdale though. If the only difference is in who's inside the tent then that accepts the actual structures are the same which PIRA so vehemently rejected at the time.
you're correct I think - it would appear that Mallon's & Currie's bitterness is "against the Hume faction of the SDLP",
but the real bitterness is against SF - they are little different to the DUP/TUV in that regard.
isn't it about time that both geezers accepted the verdict of the Nationalist electorate over several elections at this stage ?

without the efforts of John Hume, Charlie Haughey, Albert Reynolds, Bertie Ahearn ........., as facilitators,
it is difficult to see how to Peace Process could have become a reality.
 

Glenshane4

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If the only difference between sunningdale and gfa is involvement of SF then there was 20 years of war for what??
It was not the only difference.

1. The UDA had been outlawed.
2. The Local Government gerrymander had been phased.
3. The anti-Catholic bigots on the judiciary had died or retired - and sometimes both.
4. There was effective legislation against job discrimination.
5. Catholic schools had been granted 100% State funding - 61 years after Prod schools had received that.

The Catholic people of Northern Ireland still have very many grievances - more than enough to justify violence but not enough to motivate violence.
 


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