Exactly the type of immigrant we could do without


Fraxinus_

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Is that how you usually get your point across? Or what exactly is your point...that I'm a 'racist'? That was it right?

Jesus no wonder the Dail has never ONCE debated the issue of mass immigration with blinkered twits like you screaming 'racist' at every corner
You compared an entire continent to actual countries when stereotyping....are you that thick. Don't know which is thicker though the stereotyping or the former.
 

Green eyed monster

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It cuts it alright. It is obvious that there are massive numbers of unreported cases (hmmm, how new...) or cases not getting to court, and that clearly there are Irish boys/men doing it. As to your suggestion that a seeming rise might be down to mass-immigration, pull the other one. Next you'll be telling me that the kiddy-fiddling priests weren't Irish either...
Disproportionately a greater number of people of immigrant descent are involved in gang rapes, did you see the docu and the article i linked to (or did you affect temporary blindness on yourself for convenience' sake). The guy who made the documentary is a black man of African descent, in the video many other black people admit that there is a problem...

"I found there was concern among black communities about this violence. The Rev Joyce Daley, from the Black Parents Forum in Hackney, told me that gang rape is not a rare or one-off phenomenon. It is happening on a regular basis. She said: "It could actually explode on our very streets." Steve Griffith, a youth worker in King's Cross, said: "I see too much abuse of young women on the streets.""

Keep on doing the ostrich thing however - if you wish.

As to your second point, and commenting generally rather than on this case - if they're naturalized citizens then they stay, if they're here temporarily or illegally then they should be deported. But they'd have to go to prison first - otherwise they'll be unpunished.
And what happens if they get married while in prison, you know - to get the card...
 

jtbooker

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It cuts it alright. It is obvious that there are massive numbers of unreported cases (hmmm, how new...) or cases not getting to court, and that clearly there are Irish boys/men doing it. As to your suggestion that a seeming rise might be down to mass-immigration, pull the other one. Next you'll be telling me that the kiddy-fiddling priests weren't Irish either...

As to your second point, and commenting generally rather than on this case - if they're naturalized citizens then they stay, if they're here temporarily or illegally then they should be deported. But they'd have to go to prison first - otherwise they'll be unpunished.
Please read my post again :) I never actually suggested a correlation between mass-immigration and the soaring rise in those purported statistics. That would indeed be quite silly but logic would lead us to the point that would have to include that growing baseline of people from violent misogynistic societies (more so than our own that is!) has to have contributed to the rise.

"It is obvious that there are massive numbers of unreported cases (hmmm, how new...) or cases not getting to court, and that clearly there are Irish boys/men doing it."

Afraid I disagree - it's neither obvious nor even suggestive to suppose it is all down to the locals or what the number of unreported cases are - that 2005 article is of far too high a granularity to make a conclusion either way. Not to mention too old to be entirely relevant today.

Agree entirely - "if they're naturalized citizens then they stay, if they're here temporarily or illegally then they should be deported. But they'd have to go to prison first - otherwise they'll be unpunished"
 
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jtbooker

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You compared an entire continent to actual countries when stereotyping....are you that thick. Don't know which is thicker though the stereotyping or the former.
I'm not getting bogged down with the likes of you unless you actually have a point relevant to the theme of this post to make or can enlighten us 'racists' (ZZzzz...) in some shape or form. I didn't compare an entire continent - I posed a rhetorical question that juxtaposed the behaviour of some inhabitants of a content against the inhabitants of countries from which we have received immigrants from i.e. China or India etc.

However I whole heartedly admit to my stereotyping - something every poster here will (possibly hate to) admit there is some truth in.
 
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Disproportionately a greater number of people of immigrant descent are involved in gang rapes, did you see the docu and the article i linked to (or did you affect temporary blindness on yourself for convenience' sake). The guy who made the documentary is a black man of African descent, in the video many other black people admit that there is a problem...

"I found there was concern among black communities about this violence. The Rev Joyce Daley, from the Black Parents Forum in Hackney, told me that gang rape is not a rare or one-off phenomenon. It is happening on a regular basis. She said: "It could actually explode on our very streets." Steve Griffith, a youth worker in King's Cross, said: "I see too much abuse of young women on the streets.""

Keep on doing the ostrich thing however - if you wish.
Hackney. Not Ireland. I know Hackney well, and King's Cross - you can not even begin to compare the one situation with the other. For a start, the black population of Hackney is massively of Carribbean-descent, the population here African. The social environment, schooling, culture, everything, is very, very different and is simply not applicable here. I'm from London and I live here, I know the giant difference...



And what happens if they get married while in prison, you know - to get the card...
That's up to the authorities - if they're entitled to stay, they're entitled to stay. There are plenty of our own scumbags I'd love not to live here also, but you don't always get what you want.
 

Green eyed monster

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Hackney. Not Ireland. I know Hackney well, and King's Cross - you can not even begin to compare the one situation with the other. For a start, the black population of Hackney is massively of Carribbean-descent, the population here African. The social environment, schooling, culture, everything, is very, very different and is simply not applicable here. I'm from London and I live here, I know the giant difference...
Not just the UK though, the US too... there is an epidemic of black violence existent there and it is reflected in the incarceration rates, now i know that to some extent this is because of other factors - namely a greater eagerness to convict a young black man than a young white man, socioeconomic issues too - yet still the statistics for the proportion of black males in prison for crimes of violence are extremely skewed.

Perhaps Nigerians and so on are better behaved and it is early, i am not sure - i have met some lovely Nigerian people... Maybe we are getting ahead of ourselves but the UK statistics for interracial violence with knives and guns and even in playgrounds are scary....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/jun/04/race.schools

Time will tell... I hope so.
 
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Hackney. Not Ireland. I know Hackney well, and King's Cross - you can not even begin to compare the one situation with the other. For a start, the black population of Hackney is massively of Carribbean-descent, the population here African. The social environment, schooling, culture, everything, is very, very different and is simply not applicable here. I'm from London and I live here, I know the giant difference...
What a racist thing to say.

According to you the Carribbean blacks are the scum of the Earth.

Much much better are the African blacks.

I am reporting this post



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seenitallb4

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It's seems to be hard to discuss these things on this forum with any degree of calm. The first thing that occurs to me is that this is not a race issue- it is an issue of behavior and cultural attitudes. It is objectively true that some immigrant groups come from cultures where very different attitudes towards women and women's rights are widespread. It should not be controversial to point out that simply changing ones country is not enough to change one's cultural beliefs- patriarchy and sexism doesn't get erased just because someone moves to Dublin, and there are qualitative differernces between the brand of sexism that allows for, say, FGM and the kind of sexism that involves texting Lucinda Creighton jokes to your mates.
The second thing that occurs to me is that it should be a greater priority to protect the rights of women than to worry about offending people. It is the case that immigrants bring their attiudes with them when they arrive, and some of those attitudes are shocking- when those attitudes clash with our own established norms of right and wrong, it is not up to us to give way and accommodate them. Rape is wrong no matter who does it, and if skin colour is to be dragged up as a means of deflecting actual discussion, then those who do so are themselves racist.
The next issue seems to be self-evident- if someone comes here and is convicted of a violent crime, it is not in our interests to keep that person here any longer than is necessary. I can't see any reason to do so, and if deportation is a legal option in such cases, I don't see why it shouldn't be used.
AS for the case referenced in the OPs link, we don't really know what happened there yet so it seems unfair to say much until the facts come out and the case is brought to closure. But this should not prevent discussion of the general issues relating to how to deal with backward, ignorant and sexist attitudes that exist among some sections of our immigrant communities. And if someone says "oh but what about our homegrown rapists?", I would respond by saying that both should be dealt with and the existence of one type should not justify inaction on the other.
 

Aindriu

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Jaysus feckin wept! Less than a week ago a 15 year old Nigerian kid was stabbed to death - probably because of the colour of his skin & allegedly by an Irish national (the courts will decide in due course). Despite this, we still have the bloody white supremacist ar$sewipes surfacing on here!

Feck off back to your sewers you despicable people. :mad:
 

owedtojoy

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In this quaint little tale 6 youths of various African origins allegedly gang-rape a poor girl in a house and then again in a field

Gardai quiz six teenage boys over alleged rape - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

Ahh the joys of multiculturalism...if convictions follow then why are these 'people' not deported immediately upon release? The Irish State gave them and/or their families the chance to contribute to a more progressive society whilst allowing them to better their position in this world and this is the repayment?

Why is it always the Africans that cause the most grief yet contribute the least to our society? Where are the stories of gangs of Chinese men gang raping women or Indian scam artists in Sligo giving our legal system the run around?

:confused:
A gang rape is always disgusting, heinous and the perpetrators reduce themselves to scum.

However, to use a gang rape to score political or racist points is also disgusting and offensive.

I do not see how race is a significant factor in this story. If the rape had been carried out by your own race, you would not have mentioned it.
 

reknaw

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It would be great if we didn't get immigrants like that. It would be no harm, either, if there were fewer or no rapists, murderers, thieves, paedophiles and scam artists among our native population.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Nodin

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Jaysus feckin wept! Less than a week ago a 15 year old Nigerian kid was stabbed to death - probably because of the colour of his skin & allegedly by an Irish national (the courts will decide in due course). Despite this, we still have the bloody white supremacist ar$sewipes surfacing on here!

Feck off back to your sewers you despicable people. :mad:
If only they would. They seem to have clumped together on this forum.
 

Simon.D

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What's with the over load of positive discrimination on this thread, there is an air of posters standing behind these teenagers.... It is quite likely they (or at least some of them) are guilty, unless the alleged victim is lying...

How would think the victim would feel on reading this thread, seeing a glut of you standing behind her alleged rapists..

if convicted and the law would allow it, I'd be delighted to see such horribles deported.. Thats not racist.. It's practical.. If there's a mechanism by which we can reduce the number of rapists/criminals in our society, we should most definitely exploit it...
 

jackbetal

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What's with the over load of positive discrimination on this thread, there is an air of posters standing behind these teenagers.... It is quite likely they (or at least some of them) are guilty, unless the alleged victim is lying...

How would think the victim would feel on reading this thread, seeing a glut of you standing behind her alleged rapists..

if convicted and the law would allow it, I'd be delighted to see such horribles deported.. Thats not racist.. It's practical.. If there's a mechanism by which we can reduce the number of rapists/criminals in our society, we should most definitely exploit it...
You are confusing 2 different points here. Very convenient for a racist.
The points are 1. We all want to see this scum get prosecuted for their awful crime 2. The colour of these lads skin is not an issue here in the crime or the punishment unless you are a racist like you.
 

Dr Pat

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You are confusing 2 different points here. Very convenient for a racist.
The points are 1. We all want to see this scum get prosecuted for their awful crime 2. The colour of these lads skin is not an issue here in the crime or the punishment unless you are a racist like you.
Prove the racist tag or else apologise and retract it.
 

jtbooker

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Sep 8, 2009
Messages
555
It's seems to be hard to discuss these things on this forum with any degree of calm. The first thing that occurs to me is that this is not a race issue- it is an issue of behavior and cultural attitudes. It is objectively true that some immigrant groups come from cultures where very different attitudes towards women and women's rights are widespread. It should not be controversial to point out that simply changing ones country is not enough to change one's cultural beliefs- patriarchy and sexism doesn't get erased just because someone moves to Dublin, and there are qualitative differernces between the brand of sexism that allows for, say, FGM and the kind of sexism that involves texting Lucinda Creighton jokes to your mates.
The second thing that occurs to me is that it should be a greater priority to protect the rights of women than to worry about offending people. It is the case that immigrants bring their attiudes with them when they arrive, and some of those attitudes are shocking- when those attitudes clash with our own established norms of right and wrong, it is not up to us to give way and accommodate them. Rape is wrong no matter who does it, and if skin colour is to be dragged up as a means of deflecting actual discussion, then those who do so are themselves racist.
The next issue seems to be self-evident- if someone comes here and is convicted of a violent crime, it is not in our interests to keep that person here any longer than is necessary. I can't see any reason to do so, and if deportation is a legal option in such cases, I don't see why it shouldn't be used.
AS for the case referenced in the OPs link, we don't really know what happened there yet so it seems unfair to say much until the facts come out and the case is brought to closure. But this should not prevent discussion of the general issues relating to how to deal with backward, ignorant and sexist attitudes that exist among some sections of our immigrant communities. And if someone says "oh but what about our homegrown rapists?", I would respond by saying that both should be dealt with and the existence of one type should not justify inaction on the other.
An excellent well-rounded post even if I may not agree with some points you make. Nice to see someone come on capable of making a point in a calm rational manner without having to resort to slurs and bigoted heckling like some of the faux-outraged berks on here.
 

jtbooker

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What a racist thing to say.

According to you the Carribbean blacks are the scum of the Earth.

Much much better are the African blacks.

I am reporting this post
3 words in to a post and one resorts to an awkward attempt at digression via character assassination and whining about reporting posts...what a pathetic multicultural-pandering thing to say. Anything else to contribute?
 
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