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External Association 2.0 -time for Ireland to rejoin UK?


GOF58

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Jan 4, 2015
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206
The UK's exit from the EU will put Ireland in a difficult situation. With the possible return of a hard border and tariffs on trade between Ireland and our largest trading partner, it may be time to reconsider Ireland's constitutional position vis-a-vis the UK. Taking this fact into consideration, it may be time Ireland bit the bullet and rejoined the UK, as an external partner similar to De Valera's proposal.

The pros to this argument are :
the close and improving relations between the two countries- it is common knowledge that Irish and British civil servants hold meetings several times a year to coordinate policy on matters of joint concern;
Ireland already relies on the UK for external defence, with our armed forces lacking sufficient equipment and personnel to defend the country's coastline or airspace;
there are no real cultural differences any more, with Irish about to die as a spoken language and no interest from politicians or the vast majority of citizens in reviving it;
External Association envisaged the 26 counties maintaining control of its internal affairs and certain other functions in international relations, this mechanism may allow Ireland to remain a member of the EEA, thus retaining access to the common market, while remaining in an effective federation with the UK.

I don't personally agree with this scenario, and would prefer a 32 county Republic with full membership of the EU and a revived national language- however as this is increasingly unlikely to eventuate it may be time to face hard truths and move to reposition Ireland within the UK.
 

Boy M5

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21,731
No.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Funny, I was thinking one way the UK could get round any problems with the European market was some form of external association with the ROI....
Sorry. We simply aren't that influential in Europe. That all ended with Lisbon II since when we've heard nothing from Brussels except when we are in trouble.
 

McDave

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Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
13,557
The UK's exit from the EU will put Ireland in a difficult situation. With the possible return of a hard border and tariffs on trade between Ireland and our largest trading partner, it may be time to reconsider Ireland's constitutional position vis-a-vis the UK. Taking this fact into consideration, it may be time Ireland bit the bullet and rejoined the UK, as an external partner similar to De Valera's proposal.

The pros to this argument are :
the close and improving relations between the two countries- it is common knowledge that Irish and British civil servants hold meetings several times a year to coordinate policy on matters of joint concern;
Ireland already relies on the UK for external defence, with our armed forces lacking sufficient equipment and personnel to defend the country's coastline or airspace;
there are no real cultural differences any more, with Irish about to die as a spoken language and no interest from politicians or the vast majority of citizens in reviving it;
External Association envisaged the 26 counties maintaining control of its internal affairs and certain other functions in international relations, this mechanism may allow Ireland to remain a member of the EEA, thus retaining access to the common market, while remaining in an effective federation with the UK.

I don't personally agree with this scenario, and would prefer a 32 county Republic with full membership of the EU and a revived national language- however as this is increasingly unlikely to eventuate it may be time to face hard truths and move to reposition Ireland within the UK.
The UK's EU exit puts the UK in a difficult position. There's no need for us to go there. Not least if the ball gets rolling on the break up of the union with Scotland's exit.
 

Dame_Enda

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Dec 14, 2011
Messages
52,090
Dev wasnt proposing rejoining the UK. His proposal was that the King would be a figurehead with a vaguely defined role as Head of the Commonwealth and nothing beyond that in the South.

And no we shouldnt rejoin the UK. They would never let us undercut them in corporate tax rates.
 

truthandjustice

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1,775
Defo need to maintain our strong cultural and economic relations with the UK. Our idiotic relationship with the EU will ultimately destroy Ireland. We will soon find ourselves being dictated to by Germany on what our relationship with the UK is. F uk the EU.
 

truthandjustice

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The UK's EU exit puts the UK in a difficult position. There's no need for us to go there. Not least if the ball gets rolling on the break up of the union with Scotland's exit.
The UK will be fine, especially since welfare and health tourism will halt when article 50 is implemented. I'd say Britain is one lucky country.
 

devoutcapitalist

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Surely we can stand on our own two feet, It's time Paddy and Biddy got some backbone and stopped pandering to the EU bureaucrats as well as the UK.

We should NOT rejoin the UK.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Well what we can offer of course is a Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) offshored in Dublin's famous red-light-, er, I mean financial centre.

If the UK would consider reverse merging with an off-the-peg SPV we can get E&Y onto it straight away.

If you need a conference with some smiley senior political faces from the Irish cabinet we can probably arrange that too.
 

truthandjustice

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Ireland with Britain should create a trading partnership of sovereign independent trading nations with a visa scheme of immigration. If you build it they will come. If Ireland continue on this course we shall be a small majority in our own country.
 

McDave

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The UK will be fine, especially since welfare and health tourism will halt when article 50 is implemented. I'd say Britain is one lucky country.
It's hard to say at this juncture. I fear though that England might turn in on itself, and start making poor cultural choices with its new-found 'freedom'. Scotland has a historic identity decision to make, and could well make for the door. I also think that once on the outside, England may belatedly come to the view that the EU has its positive aspects, particularly in its continuous process of negotiation and compromise. It will also find its (relatively limited) institutions under pressure when dealing with the US, EU and China. Don't count your 'lucky' chickens just yet.
 

McDave

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Ireland with Britain should create a trading partnership of sovereign independent trading nations with a visa scheme of immigration. If you build it they will come. If Ireland continue on this course we shall be a small majority in our own country.
!? :D

Pure fruitcake this! I'm putting the kettle on. :)
 

truthandjustice

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!? :D

Pure fruitcake this! I'm putting the kettle on. :)
So if it is not an EU partnership of a political union it just wont do? Look at the ridiculous situation with Scotland's SNP who would prefer dictates from Brussels (Germany) rather than Edinburgh. Scotland within the UK outside the EU have more political freedom than outside the UK within the EU.
 

devoutcapitalist

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So if it is not an EU partnership of a political union it just wont do? Look at the ridiculous situation with Scotland's SNP who would prefer dictates from Brussels (Germany) rather than Edinburgh. Scotland within the UK outside the EU have more political freedom than outside the UK within the EU.
The SNP is a nanny state party that doesn't believe in self reliance, hardly surprising that they expect Brussels to provide financial largesse to Scotland if they join the EU.
 

McDave

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So if it is not an EU partnership of a political union it just wont do? Look at the ridiculous situation with Scotland's SNP who would prefer dictates from Brussels (Germany) rather than Edinburgh. Scotland within the UK outside the EU have more political freedom than outside the UK within the EU.
So, let's rejoin the UK as a first step to 'freedom' outside the EU? No, I don't think so.

I'd say let the Scots make their own mind up. I'll wager it will be either the UK or the EU. Unlike you, they live in the real world.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
In politics everything is impossible until just before it becomes possible. And around the time the improbable becomes impossible those who previously declared that the improbable was impossible like to start murmuring that possibly the improbable may become possible. In this way politics likes to introduce the improbable to the probable by way of possibility.

 

farnaby

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there are no real cultural differences any more
I grew up in the UK. My (non-Irish/British) wife and I made a very conscious decision that we did not want to live or bring our children up there.

The attitude of the people, their sense of history and their country's place in the world and their cultural framework are not and never will be those of the Irish people.
 

truthandjustice

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I grew up in the UK. My (non-Irish/British) wife and I made a very conscious decision that we did not want to live or bring our children up there.

The attitude of the people, their sense of history and their country's place in the world and their cultural framework are not and never will be those of the Irish people.
Irish people do have an inferiority complex for sure. Being bullies by the EU (Germany) wont help this going forward.
 
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