False allegations of rape = sex offender?

seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,228
Limerick Blogger said:
A 21 year old woman has pleaded guilty to making a false statement to Gardai last April, claiming at a Polish national raped her and held her prisoner at knifepoint, at Limerick District Court.

After sleeping willingly with the man, Leslie Loughman of Norwood Park, St. Patrick’s Road made a complaint to Gardai claiming that she had been raped by the Polish national.

She was brought to the Midwestern Regional hospital where the time of those at the Sexual Assault Unit was also wasted with this frivelous claim.

Six weeks, and three Garda statements later, Loughman finally admitted that her claims were indeed false.
How should such people be treated by the courts?

Should women who make false rape allegations be on the sex offenders register?
 


CookieMonster

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
33,861
They should be charged with the cost incured by the Garda, Sexual Assault Unit, court and hospital. Then charged for making false accusations of crimes and wasting Garda time.
 

stringjack

1
Moderator
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Messages
3,887
CookieMonster said:
They should be charged with the cost incured by the Garda, Sexual Assault Unit, court and hospital. Then charged for making false accusations of crimes and wasting Garda time.
What about damages in terms of the accused's reputation?

(Edit: Or, you know, what jerryp said.)
 

Daithí101

New member
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
1
stringjack said:
CookieMonster said:
They should be charged with the cost incured by the Garda, Sexual Assault Unit, court and hospital. Then charged for making false accusations of crimes and wasting Garda time.
What about damages in terms of the accused's reputation?

(Edit: Or, you know, what jerryp said.)
In terms of damages, the person who had the false allegation made against them would have the right to seek a remedy through the civil courts, mental distress and anything else a clever barrister can come up with
 

michael1965

Active member
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
143
seabhcan said:
Limerick Blogger said:
A 21 year old woman has pleaded guilty to making a false statement to Gardai last April, claiming at a Polish national raped her and held her prisoner at knifepoint, at Limerick District Court.

After sleeping willingly with the man, Leslie Loughman of Norwood Park, St. Patrick’s Road made a complaint to Gardai claiming that she had been raped by the Polish national.

She was brought to the Midwestern Regional hospital where the time of those at the Sexual Assault Unit was also wasted with this frivelous claim.

Six weeks, and three Garda statements later, Loughman finally admitted that her claims were indeed false.
How should such people be treated by the courts?
Harshly. I'd put them behind bars. It shouldn't be up to the (falsely) accused to seek civil redress.
Should women who make false rape allegations be on the sex offenders register?
No, that wouldn't make sense. They aren't sex offenders in the normal sense.
 
G

Gimpanzee

I suppose the danger is that someone thinking of making a legitimate allegation might not do so if they felt that there was a possibility of them being doubly-victimised by the courts and sent to jail.
 

The Hard Left

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
4
What a disgustful thing to do put someone through. I suppose you just think people are capable of such a thing.

While my first reaction would be that a long custodial sentence would be too good for her! on second thoughts...

Punishing her too heavily 'could' discourage other 'false accusers' from admitting they lied, in the future. . . it would be kind of like

-if the punishment for Kidnapping a child was death,,, all kidnapped children would end up dead - If you know what I mean.

The state should do everything In its power to ensure he is not marked as a rapist for the rest of his life. Too many people take a 'there's no smoke without fire' attitude. The charge should also be removed from his police record. Poor guy.
 

CookieMonster

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
33,861
The Hard Left said:
What a disgustful thing to do put someone through. I suppose you just think people are capable of such a thing.

While my first reaction would be that a long custodial sentence would be too good for her! on second thoughts...

Punishing her too heavily 'could' discourage other 'false accusers' from admitting they lied, in the future. . . it would be kind of like

-if the punishment for Kidnapping a child was death,,, all kidnapped children would end up dead - If you know what I mean.

The state should do everything In its power to ensure he is not marked as a rapist for the rest of his life. Too many people take a 'there's no smoke without fire' attitude. The charge should also be removed from his police record. Poor guy.
So the accused should get off without punishment as it might impact on other crimes that haven't happened yet?

What about robbery or murder, should the same approach be taken then too?
 

The OD

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
11,108
michael1965 said:
seabhcan said:
Limerick Blogger said:
A 21 year old woman has pleaded guilty to making a false statement to Gardai last April, claiming at a Polish national raped her and held her prisoner at knifepoint, at Limerick District Court.

After sleeping willingly with the man, Leslie Loughman of Norwood Park, St. Patrick’s Road made a complaint to Gardai claiming that she had been raped by the Polish national.

She was brought to the Midwestern Regional hospital where the time of those at the Sexual Assault Unit was also wasted with this frivelous claim.

Six weeks, and three Garda statements later, Loughman finally admitted that her claims were indeed false.
How should such people be treated by the courts?
Harshly. I'd put them behind bars. It shouldn't be up to the (falsely) accused to seek civil redress.
Should women who make false rape allegations be on the sex offenders register?
No, that wouldn't make sense. They aren't sex offenders in the normal sense.
Dont know about that - I mean their crime is sexually related and they obviously have few qualms about using sex as a weapon to cause harm to another.

However, is it really neccessary to put them on the register, the purpose of it being to monitor those who are a danger to others? It could be argued that it is, especially if they might go and have sex with someone else and try to pull this stunt again?

Hard to call this, but at a pinch, I would say no.
 

collywog

New member
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
1
They should get the same time in prison as the man they made the false allegations against would have got its that simple.
 

CookieMonster

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
33,861
collywog said:
They should get the same time in prison as the man they made the false allegations against would have got its that simple.
It's not that simple. Had the man been charged he could have been charges with committing rape. A woman who had falsely accused him would not have committed this crime and this could not be given the same sentence.
 

stringjack

1
Moderator
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Messages
3,887
CookieMonster said:
collywog said:
They should get the same time in prison as the man they made the false allegations against would have got its that simple.
It's not that simple. Had the man been charged he could have been charges with committing rape. A woman who had falsely accused him would not have committed this crime and this could not be given the same sentence.
Suppose her actions had resulted in him being held captive by the state for five or ten years. Do you think that, in that case, she should be treated as if she had herself kidnapped him and held him captive for five or ten years?
 

CookieMonster

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
33,861
stringjack said:
CookieMonster said:
collywog said:
They should get the same time in prison as the man they made the false allegations against would have got its that simple.
It's not that simple. Had the man been charged he could have been charges with committing rape. A woman who had falsely accused him would not have committed this crime and this could not be given the same sentence.
Suppose her actions had resulted in him being held captive by the state for five or ten years. Do you think that, in that case, she should be treated as if she had herself kidnapped him and held him captive for five or ten years?
Well it could be argued that way, yeah. But the thing is there would be mitigating or extenuating circumstances on the sentence the accused man would receive which wouldn't/couldn't come to light as the accused crime didn't actually occur and no trial for it took place and no sentence was served from which to draw what sort of sentence the false accuser should be subject to.
 

stringjack

1
Moderator
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Messages
3,887
CookieMonster said:
Well it could be argued that way, yeah. But the thing is there would be mitigating or extenuating circumstances on the sentence the accused man would receive which wouldn't/couldn't come to light as the accused crime didn't actually occur and no trial for it took place and no sentence was served from which to draw what sort of sentence the false accuser should be subject to.
Good point. It hardly follows, though, that we can't draw any conclusions as to the likely sentence - we could make some educated guesses, right?
 

CookieMonster

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
33,861
stringjack said:
CookieMonster said:
Well it could be argued that way, yeah. But the thing is there would be mitigating or extenuating circumstances on the sentence the accused man would receive which wouldn't/couldn't come to light as the accused crime didn't actually occur and no trial for it took place and no sentence was served from which to draw what sort of sentence the false accuser should be subject to.
Good point. It hardly follows, though, that we can't draw any conclusions as to the likely sentence - we could make some educated guesses, right?
Well yes. But I'd like to think the application of the law was based on more than educated guesses.

The circumstances of the now false claim should be investigated with the same conviction and vigor as a real claim would have been, for various reasons. To ensure that no interference caused the subsequent changing of stories and so on, and the perpetrator of the false claim be prosecuted.
Like I say, the person could be charged with all costs incurred by those involved in investigating a false claim and also, as I neglected to say above, compensation of some kind to the person against who the false claim was made and/or any other punishment the Judge deems fitting for the crime committed.
 

michael1965

Active member
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
143
Gimpanzee said:
I suppose the danger is that someone thinking of making a legitimate allegation might not do so if they felt that there was a possibility of them being doubly-victimised by the courts and sent to jail.
True, though you could apply the same argument to any kind of court statement or statement to Gardai about any kind of matter. If there is no punishment for lying, then why bother telling the truth?

But actually, thinking again, jail might be right for someone who goes all the way, and perjures themself in court. It's not so clear-cut, just for making a false statement to Gardai.

That case in the Daily Mail though is really shocking, on so many levels .. :shock:
 

Electro

Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
91
Harshly. I'd put them behind bars. It shouldn't be up to the (falsely) accused to seek civil redress.
I think so too. In the case of false accusers, naming on a register, jail sentence equivalent to accused's normal sentence, and coverage of accused's legal fees would be appropriate.

But really, what are the chances of such a law being implemented? Very slim. It would be a precedent for Western democracy and would be a sharp reversal in the current trend to offer the accuser immunity. I could imagine serious international outcry if the there was deviation from the anti-defendant status quo.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top