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Family trees?


Alliance

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Given the level of debate about immigrants, Irishness, Britishness and all the same old stuff I was wondering about family trees and how many people have found outside (meaning non-Irish/Gaelic Irish) influences on their family? My own family came here from England in the mid 1600s (have the year somewhere here), the other side is a mix of Anglo-Norman and from what we can gather native Irish, though we've only gone back to about 1780 with that side of the family.
 

Alliance

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JCSkinner said:
Dunno about family trees, but DNA testing indicated that I was pure Celt on both the matrilineal and patrilineal lines going back at least 1000 and probably 5000 years.
Damn unambitious ancestors!
Was this the Oxford Ancestors test? Would be interesting but the costs of it are a litle too much for my wee pocket sadly. Being "pure Celt" though, does that mean all orignated in Ireland? Could easily point to Highland Scottish, Welsh or even English ancestory?
 

JCSkinner

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Yup, that was the test alright. The Haplotypes indicated Irish origin, apparently, but there was a small likelihood on the patrilineal side of Scottish heritage.
Knowing my lot, however, I'm guessing they've lived within the same thirty mile radius for millennia.
 

QuizMaster

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That's very interesting JC.
As you are no doubt aware, the Celts started migrating to these islands around 600 BC. How the native people were treated by the invaders we can only guess.
But that all happened a long time ago, so I'm sure we can just put it behind us and move on.
 

jmcc

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QuizMaster said:
That's very interesting JC.
As you are no doubt aware, the Celts started migrating to these islands around 600 BC.
I think that that has been discredited in recent years. :) There was no "Celtic" invasion.

Regards...jmcc
 

gaelach

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I think my Great Great Great Grandfather was Welsh!Protestant Minister If I`m not mistaken!
 

Sidewinder

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My lot are interesting-ish from a northern point of view. Me ma's side are nearly all pure Gael - lots of O'Neills and Dohertys and so on - but we did dig up a 19th century Presbyterian minister in Ramelton on that side. Much to the shock and dismay of some of the more conservative UberCatholic branches on her side :D

Me da's side have always had the legend of my great-great-grandfather. From staunch Orange stock, his da was Grand Poobah in the local lodge, but he fell in love with a wee Fenian lass from Killybegs. For this heinous crime he was cast out of the family and disowned, and so he converted (and brought all the kids up Catholic and Republican) but the family never forgot that we're of Planter stock. Well, twould be hard to deny it with our surname :lol:

In more recent times there's been a fair few mixed marriages in various branches. I always say we're busy converting them to Republicanism, one at a time. Heh. I'm actually related - through marriage, but very closely - to Gregory Campbell :shock: As far as non-Celt* blood goes, very little (that we know of), though I do have an uncle who was a missionary in Japan, fell in love with a local girl, left the priesthood, got married and they now have 3 kids.

Only two English that I can think of in the last 3 generations married in to the clan. All families have their skeletons I suppose...

* Yes, I know there never was a Celtic invasion, I'm using it here in the common sense of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Manx, Kernow and Breton.
 

QuizMaster

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jmcc said:
QuizMaster said:
That's very interesting JC.
As you are no doubt aware, the Celts started migrating to these islands around 600 BC.
I think that that has been discredited in recent years. :) There was no "Celtic" invasion.

Regards...jmcc
How do you imagine they got here then? Do you suppose they built Newgrange? (Answer: No they didn't)
Maybe not a military invasion, maybe more of a huge wave of immigration spread out over many years.
But it is 100% certain that they arrived around the 600 BC mark and displaced the indigenous people (who in turn probably displaced an even earlier population)
 

jmcc

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QuizMaster said:
How do you imagine they got here then?
Well there is the language discrepancy that indicates that Q Celtic is the older branch of the Celtic languages and P-Celtic, the Continental/Welsh version is the younger. These islands and Europe have always have always had close connections via the sea routes. Indeed the sea routes would have been a lot more important prior to the deforestation of much of Ireland.

A lot of the Continental Celtic influences would have arrived around the time of Caesar's attempted genocide of the Gauls and then there would have been a later influx at the time of the Roman invasion of Britain.

Do you suppose they built Newgrange? (Answer: No they didn't)
Some people here actually might know a bit more about history than you think and from the way you are going on about it, I wonder if you do know anything about Irish pre-history beyond the pub quiz level.

Maybe not a military invasion, maybe more of a huge wave of immigration spread out over many years.
And what of Leabhair Galba?

Pehaps the original post Ice Age population came up the Atlantic coast lines and then moved inwards into Europe from Ireland and Britain as the conditions improved. So you have the original Q-Celtic language as, potentially, that of the settlers that stayed put and the P-Celtic of those who continued to move inwards into a thawing Europe. Then there is the genetic similarity with the Basques.

But it is 100% certain that they arrived around the 600 BC mark and displaced the indigenous people (who in turn probably displaced an even earlier population)
That's the kind of rubbish you find in primary school textbooks from people who aren't bright enough to do real historical and archeological research.

Regards...jmcc
 

JCSkinner

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100% certain? You were there, I take it, or have foolproof evidence of this?
Anyhow, the relating of haplogroups to geographical points of origin is best explained here: http://www.oxfordancestors.com/service-tribes.html
It's based on the patrilineal line only. But the good prof was intrigued enough by my results (the most homogenous they had ever tested at that point) to run a bit of extra analysis to confirm that I am boringly mono-Celt.
On one level it's a bit of fun, on another sort of fascinating. An English hackette had her father and mother lines tested and was able to piece together a fascinating narrative leading from Sudan to West Africa to the Carribean to Britain.
 

QuizMaster

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Q Celtic is indeed an older branch of the language.
It is most likely that a very different branch of celts migrated to this island than those who went to our neighbouring island (there is not much point calling them Great Britain or Ireland at this stage in history. Many historical misconceptions arise from calling places by their future names).

The prevailing theory is that they migrated from Iberia to here, and from just across the channel to the neighbouring island.

There seems to have been some sort of revolt in the 1st century AD by the earlier people against their celtic masters.

I can look up sources for these, but it's 3:20 in the morning and I should be in bed.
 

QuizMaster

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And BTW the entire human race is related to each other to the degree of 40th cousin or closer.
 

Alliance

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Sidewinder, cheers. Interesting read that!

Theres a British Isles surname profiler here if someone wants to take a look, it's a useful tool when doing some family research, particularly if you come across a more unusual name: CASA Surname Profiler

And for a further etymological breakdown I suggest having a gander over at this one Name History and Origin The information is fairly accurate and taken from the work of respected Victorian etymologist Charles Bardsley.
 

QuizMaster

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jmcc said:
I wonder if you do know anything about Irish pre-history beyond the pub quiz level.
Do we follow the rule of attacking the post not the poster in this forum?
I'm new here and not aware of all the rules.

And what of Leabhair Galba?
The Lebor Gabála Érenn is an important literary work.
There are some great stories, for example an account of the origin of the Gaels as the descendants of the Scythian prince Fénius Farsaid, one of seventy-two chieftains who built Nimrod's Tower (i.e. the Tower of Babel). His grandson Gaedel Glas "cuts" the Irish tongue from the original seventy-two languages that arose at the time of the dispersal of the nations.
Later we read about Fintán, who survives the biblical flood by spending a year under the waters in a cave called "Fintán's Grave." Afterwards known as "The White Ancient", he lives for 5500 years after the Deluge and witnesses the later settlements of the island in the guises of a salmon, an eagle and a hawk.
I have only read snippets, but I must say it's a great read and thanks for reminding me of it.
Are you suggesting, though, that it is a reliable historical source?

Then there is the genetic similarity with the Basques.
Really? I never heard of that before, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Their language bears no relation to ours, but race and language are two very different things.
 

Podolski

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ancestry

Brian Boru, the twelve tribes of Galway, a West Cork clan and, er, em, oh.... a Cromwellian general.
 

Bogwarrior

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Very similar to Sidewinder, though we only ever traced back to the great-great Grandparents. The Great Grandmother was a Donegal Protestant who also fell into the clutches of Catholicism via her Catholic boyfriend. Apparently she was forced out of her house by her shotgun-toting brother, after she was given a choice... and choose wrong. Also have an ancestor, on my Mothers side who fought and died in the Somme.
I find all this stuff fascinating and only last night watched one of the BBC shows, "Who do you think you are." It really gives you a better connection with history.
 

hiker

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Great, great grandad George (von Schlicher) jumped off the boat from Germany around 1860.

(We reckon he was on the run......)
 

QuizMaster

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On my father's side, farmers from Monaghan.
On my mother's side, Merchants from Dublin who converted to catholicism in the 1900s.

My wife's family tree is much more interesting. She can trace her line (with no breaks) to kings of Scotland and Dal Riada, princes of Wales, and most of the population of Pitcairn Island.

Oh and some Saxons and Normans but we don't like to talk about them.
 

ruserious

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So I started to do a bit of research in my spare time lately and so far, I've found my full list of Great Grandparents, 9/16 GG Grandparents and 5/32 of my GGG Grandparents.
Familyecho.com is a great site to upload your info for free and to make a graphic presentation.
 
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