Farmer finds book while spreading cow manure ---- ULYSSES--- for mugs.

12 bens

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Oliver Gogarty got himself into a spot of bother on account of Anti Semitism became the subject a lawsuit brought forth by Harry Sinclair, a Jewish art dealer, who said that two passages in the book contained libels against himself and his recently deceased twin brother, William Sinclair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_I_Was_Going_Down_Sackville_Street
That's true but it raises an interesting question about Ulysses.

It is accepted that Malachi 'Buck' Mulligan is, or is at least, based on Oliver St John Gogarty.

However, this information is not in the text. In other words, at what point in our reading of Ulysses need we have recourse to extra textual annotations?

Is the reader at a loss if they do not know of Parnell or Davitt or, indeed, Gogarty?
 


redhead

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I went to Iceland last year and you can sense the absence of invasion. Mind you there is no land or anything except fish. I wonder wjhy the British did not take it all
Odin.
 

12 bens

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What is the mythical mystical link between tons of cow dung and a novel, one wonders.
Leopold Bloom eats the stuff!

BLOOM: (Plaintively.) Hugeness!

BELLO: Dungdevourer!

BLOOM: (With sinews semiflexed.) Magmagnificence!

(From Circe episode)
 

valamhic

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That's true but it raises an interesting question about Ulysses.

It is accepted that Malachi 'Buck' Mulligan is, or is at least, based on Oliver St John Gogarty.

However, this information is not in the text. In other words, at what point in our reading of Ulysses need we have recourse to extra textual annotations?

Is the reader at a loss if they do not know of Parnell or Davitt or, indeed, Gogarty?
I see no mention of Gogerty in the book so far, I assumed it was Gogerty for sure. Perhaps not. Gogerty was a strange one, He was there to receive the body of Michael Collins after the shooting.
 

valamhic

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When did you start using the word dung?
It was natural progression as the company evolved due to being forced through economic necessity to work and live in Dublin. Its not that we don't have gurriers in Cavan, we do, but in Dublin, there is a better class of gurrier.

sh1te, to dung to manure to organic fertilizer.
 

valamhic

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The Collegians by Gerald Griffin
The Nowlans by the brothers Banim
The Key Above the Door by Maurice Walsh
Her Irish Heritage by Annie MP Smithson
Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure by John Cleland


Just a wild guess.
For me (until Ulysses) its Animal Farm by George Orwell.
 

12 bens

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I see no mention of Gogerty in the book so far, I assumed it was Gogerty for sure. Perhaps not. Gogerty was a strange one, He was there to receive the body of Michael Collins after the shooting.
Yeh! That's what I mean.

At what point does the reader consult with outside references to find out about the characters...like for example Mulligan.

If you know nothing about Davitt then you won't understand Bloom's politics. (We learn that Bloom's views are even more advanced that Davitt's.) Sorry 'bout the spoiler yet again.

If you rely on the text to the exclusion of the historical backdrop, Ulysses loses much, but not all, of its effect.
 

valamhic

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Yeh! That's what I mean.

At what point does the reader consult with outside references to find out about the characters...like for example Mulligan.

If you know nothing about Davitt then you won't understand Bloom's politics. (We learn that Bloom's views are even more advanced that Davitt's.) Sorry 'bout the spoiler yet again.

If you rely on the text to the exclusion of the historical backdrop, Ulysses loses much, but not all, of its effect.
So far Bloom appears to me to be gentle kind inoffensive man. Actually he is a bit like myself.
 

12 bens

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So far Bloom appears to me to be gentle kind inoffensive man. Actually he is a bit like myself.
Oh I can well imagine!

Keep up the good work. You now have fans in Dublin, Galway, London, Paris, Zurich, Trieste, New York and Tulsa...well so I'm told!
 

valamhic

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Yes.
I have also read Finnegans Wake.
Both a complete waste of my time.

Mediocre works at best.
The status of Joyce as some literary giant is completely false.
I have lived in Dublin and in several parts of Ireland and book reading is not common among the masses. I wonder why it received such acclaim in America and China?
 
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redhead

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I have lived in Dublin and in several parts of Ireland and book reading is not common among the masses. I wonder why it received suck acclaim in America and China?
What the hell is "suck acclaim"?
 

12 bens

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What the hell is "suck acclaim"?
It's from Ulysses.

"I had to get him to suck them they were so hard he said it was sweeter and thicker than cows then he wanted to milk me into the tea well hes beyond everything I declare somebody ought to put him in the budget if I only could remember the one half of the things and write a book out of it the works of Master Poldy"

(From Penelope episode-Molly musing)
 
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It's from Ulysses.

"I had to get him to suck them they were so hard he said it was sweeter and thicker than cows then he wanted to milk me into the tea well hes beyond everything I declare somebody ought to put him in the budget if I only could remember the one half of the things and write a book out of it the works of Master Poldy"

(From Penelope episode-Molly musing)
Don't over estimate the OP.
 

12 bens

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Don't over estimate the OP.
D'ya think I'm some sortofa gom or wha?

The OP is Val a mhic's coded allusion to ' Three acres and a cow for all children of nature' from the Circe episode of Ulysses.

Ya must think I came up the Liffey in a bubble!

Jeez-P.ie-the Barney Kiernan's of Irish political websites!

WTF
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Joyce is alright but he's no Dan Brown.
 
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D'ya think I'm some sortofa gom or wha?

The OP is Val a mhic's coded allusion to ' Three acres and a cow for all children of nature' from the Circe episode of Ulysses.

Ya must think I came up the Liffey in a bubble!

Jeez-P.ie-the Barney Kiernan's of Irish political websites!

WTF
He's quoting from the fifteenth episode already?
 

redhead

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It's from Ulysses.

"I had to get him to suck them they were so hard he said it was sweeter and thicker than cows then he wanted to milk me into the tea well hes beyond everything I declare somebody ought to put him in the budget if I only could remember the one half of the things and write a book out of it the works of Master Poldy"

(From Penelope episode-Molly musing)
Hmmmmm, not the most memorable verb in the book.
 

fat finger

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Yes.
I have also read Finnegans Wake.
Both a complete waste of my time.

Mediocre works at best.
The status of Joyce as some literary giant is completely false.
That's probably right. Joyce was only interested in making money from his books, to hell with any literary pretensions. That's why he got into making up words, a crime against writing, especially in English which has enough words to keep most authors going for several lifetimes. The problem for Joyce, whose mind started going at quite a young age, is that consulting the dictionary to make sure he had the correct spelling for more unusual words was taking up a lot of valuable time, so his stroke of genius was to invent words that required no spell checking because no one had ever heard of them before, meaning he could crank out ten times the quantity of guff and keep his agent happy, it was a masterstroke of cutting corners but let's not for one moment think that the result of this corner cutting was superior quality writing, it wasn't, it just wasn't and no number of puffed up Joycean scholars are going to convince us otherwise, and look, that's OK, Ulysses and the rest have an audience, they have a readership, a small readership granted, but a readership nevertheless, and if those readers want to believe that Joyce is some kind of literary phenomenon then let them, just leave them to it. The rest of us will just keep our opinions to ourselves and read the books we want and lionise the authors we believe worthy of being lionised, simple as that really
 


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