FAS after its breakup to rescue the economy with better job training?

patslatt

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Recently I got an insight into practical training for manual work in the empire that was FAS. An acquaintance with Leaving Cert education laid off from general construction work told me about his experience of participating in a FAS welding training programme. You would assume this would involve a lot of welding demos,with trainees learning by doing actual welding. Instead,the instructor talked most of the time,only allowing the trainees to do tiny bits of welding which in my acquaintance's opinion were totally inadequate to gain experience. His opinion is partly based on experience of doing small amounts of welding in the past. He and others quit the course very early on. Is this a reasonable assessment or am I missing something?

The welding programme is pointless anyhow as he says there are hardly any apprenticeships available. If so,why is FAS bothering with welding training?

When FAS is divided between the Department of Social Welfare and the VECs,let's hope they do a better job with the huge billion euro FAS budget and take control quickly so that a zombie FAS doesn't continue like the zombie health boards for years after the HSE's creation.
 


captainwillard

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Recently I got an insight into practical training for manual work in the empire that was FAS. An acquaintance with Leaving Cert education laid off from general construction work told me about his experience of participating in a FAS welding training programme. You would assume this would involve a lot of welding demos,with trainees learning by doing actual welding. Instead,the instructor talked most of the time,only allowing the trainees to do tiny bits of welding which in my acquaintance's opinion were totally inadequate to gain experience. His opinion is partly based on experience of doing small amounts of welding in the past. He and others quit the course very early on. Is this a reasonable assessment or am I missing something?

The welding programme is pointless anyhow as he says there are hardly any apprenticeships available. If so,why is FAS bothering with welding training?

When FAS is divided between the Department of Social Welfare and the VECs,let's hope they do a better job with the huge billion euro FAS budget and take control quickly so that a zombie FAS doesn't continue like the zombie health boards for years after the HSE's creation.
It must be difficult for FAS dealing with people who just quit the courses they offer.
 

PAD1OH

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i did a FAS course years ago.

it was good for me and i got a job soon after.

if you quit early you're never going to get anywhere.

p.s. some people left my course early too because they assumed it was going to be ************************. not only did they miss out, they made it difficult for people on the waiting list get on the course.

it would be impossible to run a decent course if people are always leaving
 

Macy

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Welding isn't an apprenticeship, and would there not be health and safety risks in letting inexperienced people loose with welders without talking about how to do it and the risks involved?

Still, I'm sure the people that wanted to learn are pleased to have been delayed by someone wasting a place (does that count as private sector waste?).
 

patslatt

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Talking heads

Welding isn't an apprenticeship, and would there not be health and safety risks in letting inexperienced people loose with welders without talking about how to do it and the risks involved?

Still, I'm sure the people that wanted to learn are pleased to have been delayed by someone wasting a place (does that count as private sector waste?).
So if the instructor just talks for hours and hours in front of a class,this prevents safety risks-as opposed to an instructor standing beside small groups and physically showing them how to do welds? In the army for instance,the instructor should talk for hours about the rifle before letting the recruit pull the trigger or in a kitchen,hours and hours of talk before slicing an onion?
 

Ultor

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In the army for instance,the instructor should talk for hours about the rifle before letting the recruit pull the trigger ?
If you ever talked to anyone who went through basic training, that is precisely what happens at the start!!! (Obviously only until the trainee has proven their competence with the weapon unloaded, then the instructor moves on)
 

cry freedom

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Would it be too "West Brit" to suggest that we follow the standards of the London City and Guilds when we revamp out skills training agency.
Perhaps it would be better to keep turning out "Fianna Fail" standard plumbers and fitters rather than let foreign influences interfere with the present cozy little arrangement.
 

patslatt

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Can you point to some differences between UK's Guilds and FAS?

Would it be too "West Brit" to suggest that we follow the standards of the London City and Guilds when we revamp out skills training agency.
Perhaps it would be better to keep turning out "Fianna Fail" standard plumbers and fitters rather than let foreign influences interfere with the present cozy little arrangement.
 

patslatt

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If you ever talked to anyone who went through basic training, that is precisely what happens at the start!!! (Obviously only until the trainee has proven their competence with the weapon unloaded, then the instructor moves on)
In the army,presumably the instructor shows the recruit how to use the rifle's sights and telescopic sights,how to hold it properly with the correct pressure,assume a firing position and gently pull the trigger on an unloaded weapon. After that,the recruit would presumably be given lots of target practice-unlike the FAS course where there was very little welding practice.
 

captainwillard

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In the army,presumably the instructor shows the recruit how to use the rifle's sights and telescopic sights,how to hold it properly with the correct pressure,assume a firing position and gently pull the trigger on an unloaded weapon. After that,the recruit would presumably be given lots of target practice-unlike the FAS course where there was very little welding practice.
I do not believe you are familiar with Health and Safety in the construction industry. A lot of training is all about health and safety. Doing the job safe is very important.

It seems like your friend just wanted to weld without any form of induction or training. And when he did not get what he wanted, he just left.

People who do not adhere to H&S guidelines do not belong on a modern construction site as they put themselves and their colleagues at risk.
 

Ask Not

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In the army,presumably the instructor shows the recruit how to use the rifle's sights and telescopic sights,how to hold it properly with the correct pressure,assume a firing position and gently pull the trigger on an unloaded weapon. After that,the recruit would presumably be given lots of target practice-unlike the FAS course where there was very little welding practice.

The apprenticeship system we have is excellent, as shown by our constant gold medal hauls at the World Skills Championship, and should most certainly not be changed. FAS, despite their problems have trained a great many excellent tradesmen/women.

I notice in your original post that you mentioned that your aquaintance was laid off from general construction work and then disliked the theoretical side of skilled training, blaming the trainer. In my own experience it is knowledge of the theoretical side to a new skill that lays the foundation to learning that skill. You can't make someone complete a course if they don't want to.
Quitters always blame others.
 

patslatt

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Talking heads v doing it

The apprenticeship system we have is excellent, as shown by our constant gold medal hauls at the World Skills Championship, and should most certainly not be changed. FAS, despite their problems have trained a great many excellent tradesmen/women.

I notice in your original post that you mentioned that your aquaintance was laid off from general construction work and then disliked the theoretical side of skilled training, blaming the trainer. In my own experience it is knowledge of the theoretical side to a new skill that lays the foundation to learning that skill. You can't make someone complete a course if they don't want to.
Quitters always blame others.
Does any other country spend a billion per 4 million population on FAS type courses? Does the UK spend over €15 billion or the US spend €70 billion? No wonder FAS trainees won some medals.

Again,what's the point of talking and talking for a practical manual skill long beyond the point when the instructor should be demonstrating actual welds and showing trainees how to actually do it. Are you connected to FAS in some way,by the way?
 
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