FÁS fail to apply for EU funding in 2010, Ruairi Quinn calls for it's closure

wombat

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I did a FÁS course a few years ago and found it worthwhile but I don't think they've changed the courses even though the economy and the types of jobs availabe have changed a lot over the past few years.
Its one of the problems with govt. run training schemes - they are relevant when they are planned but often by the time they are up and running they have lost their relevance. Another problem is that the staff hired to provide the course have seniority and will be kept on in preference to more junior staff who are teaching more relevant courses.
 


greengoose2

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The solution is not to substitute mickey mouse training schemes with degrees in basket weaving.
We need tradesmen, we need technicians, we need a training authority similar to the old AnCo.
What is needed is a hands on type of training. Let's take a trade area like cooking; Spend some weeks in a butchers shop then a month or so on a trawler as a deckhand. A spell on a farm, plant some vegetables and then put the whole shebang into a years hands on training in a big hotel kitchen. The knowledge and experience gained would amply build up a person's confidence and at the end they would have a more dynamic attitude for job seeking.

That would be the idea in other areas. Plumbing could be hands on on a building site, soldering stuff in an electronics firm, working in a mechanics workshop, assisting maintenance on boilers in an establishment and then a year plumbing.

I would like to see the managers of FAS with greasy hands (not from the till) and wearing overalls.
 

wombat

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I would like to see the managers of FAS with greasy hands (not from the till) and wearing overalls.
Most trainers are tradesmen, so I would think a lot of the managers are too. One of the problems is that good trainers get promoted, meaning they are not available as trainers, meaning their experience is lost. Bechtel deal with this problem by using a grading system, whereby a technical specialist can be promoted to a higher grade without having to change roles, so that a manager can be earning less than someone reporting to them. Again, a return to a purely training function with welfare schemes administered by Social Welfare would leave Fás with a more focussed role.
 

stanley

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Fás name and logo may be dropped


Govt still trying to stick thumbs in a dam, this Agency needs wiping out completely, Quinn's ideas are better, once you see/hear Sweary Mary making comments, disaster follows, she should stick to her real job, keeping the lid on the loony who lives in the Steward's House.
 

asknoquestions

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Quinn has the right idea. FAS does not work. It is a badly run organisation running mickey mouse courses to keep the unemployed off the books! Fail, fail, fail. And the mere notion of the Irish kiddos learning another language for jobs in call centers is appalling!
Why is it so appalling? There are plenty of foreign nationals working in call centres in Ireland speaking foreign languages - wouldn't it be good for young Irish people to be able to compete for these jobs instead of signing on every week?

Also with a foreign language, youngsters would be able to get out to Europe and compete for jobs there, also doing whatever they trained in.

The job market won't stand still and there's no point hoping that English language skills are now enough to get a job - there's probably 100 million Indians and Chinese who have brought their English language skills up to speed in the past few years.

People in Ireland who expect the jobs to come to them - HELLO??!! The jobs have gone to India/China/Hungary and they're not coming back. Upskill or else prepare for obsolescence.
 

greengoose2

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Why is it so appalling? There are plenty of foreign nationals working in call centres in Ireland speaking foreign languages - wouldn't it be good for young Irish people to be able to compete for these jobs instead of signing on every week?

Also with a foreign language, youngsters would be able to get out to Europe and compete for jobs there, also doing whatever they trained in.

The job market won't stand still and there's no point hoping that English language skills are now enough to get a job - there's probably 100 million Indians and Chinese who have brought their English language skills up to speed in the past few years.

People in Ireland who expect the jobs to come to them - HELLO??!! The jobs have gone to India/China/Hungary and they're not coming back. Upskill or else prepare for obsolescence.
What is so appalling is that the Irish psyche is not geared towards languages. We are hopeless and it is for that reason that the foreigners come here in the first place. If after thirteen years we can't sting a few words of Gaelige into a sentence how do you envisage obtaining fluency in a FAS course? Would a thirteen year course in FAS do the trick? Je ne penses pas mon pauvre ami. We simply make the standard excuses for our shortcomings in whatever we show our failings in.
 

stanley

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Fás board kept in dark for months about EU probe into funds | Irish Examiner


The Molloy/Cooney style of management continued in their absence, the executive Board that ran the company away from the prying eyes of the main appointed Board kept quite about the funding problems at the EU even away from the mighty DoF.

More than likely the promised future funds will be pulled and they will have to come up with a refund, wherever that will come from, oh just stick it on the 20bn deficit or maybe just change the name of the Org and re-apply the EU will never notice.

Wait until the EU go down to Awfully to see the new National Training Centre on the edge of a bog that should get them going.
 

asknoquestions

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What is so appalling is that the Irish psyche is not geared towards languages. We are hopeless and it is for that reason that the foreigners come here in the first place. If after thirteen years we can't sting a few words of Gaelige into a sentence how do you envisage obtaining fluency in a FAS course? Would a thirteen year course in FAS do the trick? Je ne penses pas mon pauvre ami. We simply make the standard excuses for our shortcomings in whatever we show our failings in.
<--- The "Irish teaching is useless" thread is over there la.

The Irish are adroit at languages not including Irish. There were four Irish Nobel Prize winners in the twentieth century. If the French or the Germans had as many per capita they should have had about 150 between them.

In fact, I would say the Irish psyche is better geared toward languages and arts than sciences - how many Irish have won physics, chemistry or medicine Nobel prizes? Compare that to actors, dramatists and musicians.

Beckett was fluent in French and Joyce in Italian and Heaney has mastered Old English.

If you want to work in a call centre you need only a limited repertoire of phrases and vocabulary. You don't have to be able to debate unemployment.

If the last few years were about standardization across economies, now that everyone speaks English the next few will be about differentiation.
 

Indy-pendant

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Fás board kept in dark for months about EU probe into funds | Irish Examiner


The Molloy/Cooney style of management continued in their absence, the executive Board that ran the company away from the prying eyes of the main appointed Board kept quite about the funding problems at the EU even away from the mighty DoF.

More than likely the promised future funds will be pulled and they will have to come up with a refund, wherever that will come from, oh just stick it on the 20bn deficit or maybe just change the name of the Org and re-apply the EU will never notice.

Wait until the EU go down to Awfully to see the new National Training Centre on the edge of a bog that should get them going.
Thanks for the link - I hadn't seen that, and I don't think it featured much on radio or TV, did it. Shocking stuff... but then there's just so much shocking stuff, isn't there :(
 

DCon

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What is so appalling is that the Irish psyche is not geared towards languages. We are hopeless and it is for that reason that the foreigners come here in the first place. If after thirteen years we can't sting a few words of Gaelige into a sentence how do you envisage obtaining fluency in a FAS course? Would a thirteen year course in FAS do the trick? Je ne penses pas mon pauvre ami. We simply make the standard excuses for our shortcomings in whatever we show our failings in.
The Irish education system is not geared towards the proper learning of languages

All languages are taught through English (except Gaelic in Gaelscoil's) and the conversational aspect of languages is ignored.

I would love to speak Gaelic, but I cannot. Ditto German. 5 year's in school, and barely a word left. Although my German is better than my Gaelic wich says a lot
 

greengoose2

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<--- The "Irish teaching is useless" thread is over there la.

The Irish are adroit at languages not including Irish. There were four Irish Nobel Prize winners in the twentieth century. If the French or the Germans had as many per capita they should have had about 150 between them.

In fact, I would say the Irish psyche is better geared toward languages and arts than sciences - how many Irish have won physics, chemistry or medicine Nobel prizes? Compare that to actors, dramatists and musicians.

Beckett was fluent in French and Joyce in Italian and Heaney has mastered Old English.

If you want to work in a call centre you need only a limited repertoire of phrases and vocabulary. You don't have to be able to debate unemployment.

If the last few years were about standardization across economies, now that everyone speaks English the next few will be about differentiation.
What absolute nonsense! Do you speak other languages? Those whom you refer to were British and well up the social ladder. I cant answer any of your vague questions but I'm sure you will have the good grace to explain.

Joyce used to hang around in Zurich for a time.
 

stanley

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Fás debacle sees over 32,000 assessments being withheld

"In his memo to staff, O'Toole said that Fás was once again experiencing a lot of media "and other attention and negative comment" which is "clearly unwelcome".

It is understood there is growing tension between Fás management and the government over the increasing number of revelations about the jobs agency.

While Fás management do not underestimate the problems that need to be addressed, there is a belief that the government is using the Fás scandals to deflect criticism away from other more critical issues such as Anglo Irish bank".


Interesting it is the Fas management snapping at the Govt and not the newly appointed Board, surely such an attack on the hand that feeds them should come from the Chairman of Fas after Board approval, once again Fas management ignore their Board, this is where their problems started.

You get the feeling they should not be accountable to anyone least of all the taxpayers reps, Cooney is still hiding in public view over at the GAA, Greg Craig sidesteps every single move against him and as for Molloy, what more can be said.

The Govt needs to smack down hard on this arrogant style or they will be back training the unemployed to head for the moon with Nasa again.
 

wombat

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The Govt needs to smack down hard on this arrogant style or they will be back training the unemployed to head for the moon with Nasa again.
The sooner this empire is broken up, the better. We need a training agency which focuses on training - the hedge cutting schemes need to be returned to the welfare dept., where they belong.
 

stanley

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The sooner this empire is broken up, the better. We need a training agency which focuses on training - the hedge cutting schemes need to be returned to the welfare dept., where they belong.


Broken up, this FF empire needs to be eradicated along with it's "legacy issues" and nobody in that Org should be rewarded for failure.

Christy Cooney must be beside himself with relief he jumped ship into the GAA on effectively a 3 year pay-off from FAS, cant see him coming back, will bet he is already trying to negotiate a golden handshake deal, "pay up and I wont come back and mess you up".
 

brughahaha

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The sooner this empire is broken up, the better. We need a training agency which focuses on training - the hedge cutting schemes need to be returned to the welfare dept., where they belong.
Indeed we do - but cant agree with ruairi's idea

Firstly, many people would be put off going near colleges for socio economic reasons

Secondly , short courses would be relegated to pariah status always giving way to the (more important) needs of full time students (experienced this on a night time course in UCD where lectures were either moved or canceled altogether to facilitate degree students as May approached.)


And finally anyone who thinks that Irish Universities or ITs offer value for money or offer prudent financial management needs their head examined, there as big a money making racket as FAS
 

stanley

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It can only be a matter of time before Fas actually blame the FF Govt for making a mess out of the application for EU funds and say it had nothing to do with them, now they have no money for expenses, travel trips, pay-offs, national training centres or flippin anything.
 

wombat

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Indeed we do - but cant agree with ruairi's idea

Firstly, many people would be put off going near colleges for socio economic reasons
We need to be realistic - those who need training most are the men in their twenties who dropped out of school to work on the buildings. They dropped out of secondary school - what makes anyone think they are 3rd level material - the dumbing down of 3rd level courses is a big enough problem as it is. These guys have nothing to offer an employer but their muscles and eastern Europeans will work for less.
There are times when Quinn shows his background - people with 2nd or 3rd level qualifications can fend for themselves, training needs to be focused at a more basic level.
 

asknoquestions

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We need to be realistic - those who need training most are the men in their twenties who dropped out of school to work on the buildings. They dropped out of secondary school - what makes anyone think they are 3rd level material - the dumbing down of 3rd level courses is a big enough problem as it is. These guys have nothing to offer an employer but their muscles and eastern Europeans will work for less.
There are times when Quinn shows his background - people with 2nd or 3rd level qualifications can fend for themselves, training needs to be focused at a more basic level.
but training for what precisely? Construction is a busted flush and manufacturing has gone east, to Hungary, Poland and China.

Low-level IT call-center jobs have gone to India.

What training are you suggesting for these lads?

And there are also plenty of people with 2nd and 3rd level qualifications who don't have anything available to them. If they don't have a second language they can't even get a job in a call centre.
 

wombat

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but training for what precisely? Construction is a busted flush and manufacturing has gone east, to Hungary, Poland and China.
House building is finished for the forseeable future but we will need to build infrastructure although I don't see huge numbers being needed - possibly more steel erectors than labourers, there will be work for welders both here and overseas. There are still opportunities in industry - our current exports are predominantly pharma & IT both rely on relatively skilled people at the basic operator level. Many of the unskilled come from farming backgrounds, we have scope to expand the food sector, again specific training will help. Remember, people who worked in construction may not be educated but they are not lazy and many are not stupid, they will pick up new skills relatively quickly.
 


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