Fatal Foetal Abnormality: The Reality the "No' Campaign Avoids

owedtojoy

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Let us call her Maura, it is not her real name.

Maura was married and within a year found she was pregnant. She and her husband were both excited and even ecstatic. The families were told, and their happiness was shared.

Then after about four months into the pregnancy, came the hammer blow. The baby had a genetically inherited abnormality called Edwards Syndrome that made survival to term, and then survival outside the womb, problematic. Less than 10% of Edwards Syndrome babies survive beyond a year.

Maura was shattered. She turned to her medical advisers for support and counselling but they were not there for her. Her gynaecologist, after telling her the news on the phone, withdrew from contact. When Maura rang his office, his secretary would not put her through, but offered her an appointment in ten days. Furiously, Maura stormed into his clinic and refused to leave. But he was still shamefaced and evasive. Her GP was not much better.

The word "termination" or "abortion" was never mentioned, but Maura ended up with two similar cards printed each with a telephone number. One was for the Well Woman Clinic, one for a Catholic Agency. After that, it was up to her and her husband to decide. After an agonised pause, they chose the Well Woman Clinic in Dublin, which was the first melancholy stop on a journey to a clinic in London.

There is a happy postscript. The couple within a few years became the parents of a healthy girl and a boy. But Maura does not forget her three pregnancies. Pregnant women who have received diagnoses described as ‘fatal foetal abnormalities’ (FFAs) by their doctors are not permitted lawful terminations in Ireland. Because of the repressive atmosphere surrounding discussion of termination, they do not even get the medical attention they deserve.

It was the 8th Amendment that deprived Maura of her Human Rights to medical counsel. The medical profession are terrified of policing or a whisper of the word "abortion", something that involves at the very least severe reputational damage, and 14 years in jail as the worst. You can see the spectre of Savita Hallipanavaar, and her midwife saying "This is a Catholic Country".

You cannot dismiss Maura with "Hard Cases make Bad Law". Hard medical cases deserve the best counselling and support they can get from the profession. With the 8th Amendment still in the Constitution, the Mauras of Ireland will be still left lonely and frightened to ponder two telephone numbers.

http://www.thejournal.ie/fatal-foetal-abnormality-4-4003585-May2018/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/fatal-foetal-abnormality-the-kindest-thing-for-our-baby-was-to-terminate-1.3478014
 


Emily Davison

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My sympathies to Maura and her husband. I can feel the pain in that story. If it's your story my sympathies to you. Ireland has been a cold country to too many for too long. It's time to end that. And time to stop tying the hands of the medical profession.
 

edwin

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What a shame we aren't being given an amendment that would allow people to vote on this issue without also allowing the killing of healthy babies. Shame on those feigning compassion while abusing these women for their extremist ends.
 

petaljam

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What a shame we aren't being given an amendment that would allow people to vote on this issue without also allowing the killing of healthy babies. Shame on those feigning compassion while abusing these women for their extremist ends.
That's because only months ago Prolife were still insisting that no such thing existed and that doctors get their diagnoses wrong. And that all babies have to have the same chance at life no matter how short. Some still do. Do you now disagree with them?
 

Emily Davison

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What a shame we aren't being given an amendment that would allow people to vote on this issue without also allowing the killing of healthy babies. Shame on those feigning compassion while abusing these women for their extremist ends.
And have you been advocating that ever on here. Or is this a cynical pretend compassion. Decades too late. You will not fool the people of Ireland like you did to get the 8th in. They copped on with the 13th and if they can do that they can do the right thing and bring abortion and compassion home.
 

edwin

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That's because only months ago Prolife were still insisting that no such thing existed and that doctors get their diagnoses wrong. And that all babies have to have the same chance at life no matter how short. Some still do. Do you now disagree with them?
What matters is you and your shameful ilk are abusing these people to try and legalise the killing of healthy babies.
 

edwin

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And have you been advocating that ever on here. Or is this a cynical pretend compassion. Decades too late. You will not fool the people of Ireland like you did to get the 8th in. They copped on with the 13th and if they can do that they can do the right thing and bring abortion and compassion home.
All the pretend compassion is from the likes of you. Abusing these women's cases to try and legalise abortion on demand. Shame on you.
 

GDPR

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All the pretend compassion is from the likes of you. Abusing these women's cases to try and legalise abortion on demand. Shame on you.
Women should be chained up for their own safety right?

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk
 

petaljam

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All the pretend compassion is from the likes of you. Abusing these women's cases to try and legalise abortion on demand. Shame on you.
So why were you implying you would have supported an amendment that would allow termination of pregnancy for these couples? You know that's not true. And it's my fault it seems.

(Bit cowardly of you, IMO - you don't even have the courage to take responsibility for your own views, without blaming them on other people. :roll:)
 

Jack O Neill

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All the pretend compassion is from the likes of you. Abusing these women's cases to try and legalise abortion on demand. Shame on you.
The shame is very much on you my old friend . Not a single extra child will be aborted if people/ women are given the freedom to make their own choices with their lives and their bodies . What exactly is the problem people like you and your cult have with that . Do you get all aroused thinking of bringing Ireland back to the good old days of mother and baby homes , Magdalene convents and the live exports of little babies to the USA .You are a pathetic hypocrite of the worst kind
 

Dame_Enda

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A painful post-birth death by a sentient being is going to be much more traumatic than a death before the foetus becomes sentient.
 

Dr Pat

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Using hard cases to push for abortion on demand is ridiculously transparent.
 
Last edited:

ger12

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How are these babies actually aborted? And how many are given an incorrect diagnosis? :|
 

Dame_Enda

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What is your authority for that statement?
Its common sense that if a foetus is at a stage of the pregnancy where they cant feel pain, or feel it less than a born person, that abortion would be a less painful death than the inevitable death post-birth from a fatal foetal abnormality. Its analogous to paleative care of a terminally ill elderly person. Its an act of mercy.
 

Dr Pat

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Its common sense that if a foetus is at a stage of the pregnancy where they cant feel pain, or feel it less than a born person, that abortion would be a less painful death than the inevitable death post-birth from a fatal foetal abnormality. Its analogous to paleative care of a terminally ill elderly person.
What is the scientific evidence on this. And what about trauma for the parents especially the mother?
 

Dame_Enda

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What is the scientific evidence on this. And what about trauma for the parents especially the mother?
The mothers trauma in my gut opinion would be much worse if they have to watch a living post birth baby they have bonded with die than if it was aborted.

Scientific evidence also shows that a foetus does not feel pain until the third trimester.
 

ger12

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Let us call her Maura, it is not her real name.

Maura was married and within a year found she was pregnant. She and her husband were both excited and even ecstatic. The families were told, and their happiness was shared.

Then after about four months into the pregnancy, came the hammer blow. The baby had a genetically inherited abnormality called Edwards Syndrome that made survival to term, and then survival outside the womb, problematic. Less than 10% of Edwards Syndrome babies survive beyond a year.

Maura was shattered. She turned to her medical advisers for support and counselling but they were not there for her. Her gynaecologist, after telling her the news on the phone, withdrew from contact. When Maura rang his office, his secretary would not put her through, but offered her an appointment in ten days. Furiously, Maura stormed into his clinic and refused to leave. But he was still shamefaced and evasive. Her GP was not much better.

The word "termination" or "abortion" was never mentioned, but Maura ended up with two similar cards printed each with a telephone number. One was for the Well Woman Clinic, one for a Catholic Agency. After that, it was up to her and her husband to decide. After an agonised pause, they chose the Well Woman Clinic in Dublin, which was the first melancholy stop on a journey to a clinic in London.

There is a happy postscript. The couple within a few years became the parents of a healthy girl and a boy. But Maura does not forget her three pregnancies. Pregnant women who have received diagnoses described as ‘fatal foetal abnormalities’ (FFAs) by their doctors are not permitted lawful terminations in Ireland. Because of the repressive atmosphere surrounding discussion of termination, they do not even get the medical attention they deserve.

It was the 8th Amendment that deprived Maura of her Human Rights to medical counsel. The medical profession are terrified of policing or a whisper of the word "abortion", something that involves at the very least severe reputational damage, and 14 years in jail as the worst. You can see the spectre of Savita Hallipanavaar, and her midwife saying "This is a Catholic Country".

You cannot dismiss Maura with "Hard Cases make Bad Law". Hard medical cases deserve the best counselling and support they can get from the profession. With the 8th Amendment still in the Constitution, the Mauras of Ireland will be still left lonely and frightened to ponder two telephone numbers.

Q&A: Does the Eighth have to be repealed to legislate for fatal foetal abnormality cases?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/fatal-foetal-abnormality-the-kindest-thing-for-our-baby-was-to-terminate-1.3478014
So you can provide access to abortion for 3 babies of the hard cases (rape, FFA etc) 97 babies will die.

Do you think that's proportionate?
 

petaljam

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The mothers trauma in my gut opinion would be much worse if they have to watch a living post birth baby they have bonded with die than if it was aborted.
IMO the most important thing is that she should be the one to make that choice as to which she finds less traumatic.
Not other people.
 

petaljam

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So you can provide access to abortion for 3 of the hard cases, 97 babies will die. women will travel abroad for terminations.
FYP.

That's the reality.
Even assuming the numbers are correct, which they probably aren't, those terminations are happening and nobody is trying to remove the 13th nor even trying to stop women taking the abortion pill in Ireland.
 


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