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Fathers' Rights: DNA testing


Joined
Oct 29, 2009
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A friend of mine asked me to look into this, as he is uncertain about the paternity of his child. Well, I made an investigation into DNA paternity tests and was rather shocked by what I discovered.

Firstly, there are several companies out there, but not one is actually based in Ireland (more like agencies). Just about all certified labs are U.K.-based.

Secondly, it can be expensive: for example €600 for Cellmark Ireland an other companies are cheaper. They are accurate: 99.999% for the trio but only 99.97% accurate if samples are from just the alleged father and the child.

Thirdly (and here's the kicker): if you want DNA paternity test and you aren't either on the birth certificate or unmarried, you must have permission from the mother for the test, if the child is under 16.

My friend obviously doesn't want to upset his girlfriend by demanding a paternity test! He has to either suffer in silence or weather the storm whilst paying a fortune to a solicitor. Apparently this is the case in Irish Law and for any Irish agency of these firms. I'm not sure if this a EU-wide obligation. I think they're illegal in France (or soon to be). I believe confirming one's paternity ought to be a fundamental human right.

This means that if you have fallen out with your partner, you can't get this test done without first going through a Court. The Court can compel a DNA test be done (though doesn't always grant this right) and I am not even 100% if merely signing the birth certificate is sufficient recognition of paternity.

Here are some companies:
Cellmark Ireland | DNA Testing & Paternity Tests UK
DNA Testing for Paternity | Home DNA Test kits by homeDNAdirect Ireland
DNA Ireland - Home -

This company does "DNA Testing for Infidelity", in addition to the usual services:
DNA Testing in Ireland | Paternity Testing | Home DNA Test by easyDNA

A nurse (employed by one of the abovementioned companies) advised on a U.S. send-away postal kit. She considered them to be almost as accurate, but no obligation for maternal permission. A simple cheek swab and into the post it goes! A whole lot of heartache to be avoided in the years to come!

  • I am unclear about maintenance (perhaps someone can help me?), can you be obliged to pay maintenance if you aren't recognized as the father i.e. on the birth certificate?

    Can you be obliged to pay maintenance if not named on the birth certificate but subsequently acknowledged to be the father following the DNA paternity test? (I presume one is not obliged to pay maintenance if one is unnamed on the child's birth certificate? But is obliged to do so if a married father, separated or divorced?)

    Under what circumstances is one obliged to pay maintenance? I presume a married father does, but what if the father were subsequently found to be not the biological father, would he continue to be obliged to pay up?
 

Limerick Lad

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You don't elaborate on why your "friend" has doubts about the paternity of the child in question. presumably he had unprotected sex with the child's mother and is therefore in the frame as the putative father.
 

sauntersplash

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You don't elaborate on why your "friend" has doubts about the paternity of the child in question. presumably he had unprotected sex with the child's mother and is therefore in the frame as the putative father.
:lol:

Why would elaboration be necessary on this? Maybe the kid's black with red hair and a big schnozz and "daddy-o" is not. Who cares?
 

corelli

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Sorry, you are wondering why a court order is requisite in order to take an intimate bodily sample from a minor?? Seriously?
 

ivnryn

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Sorry, you are wondering why a court order is requisite in order to take an intimate bodily sample from a minor?? Seriously?
I think the issue is that it only applies to the father. If the mother was wondering who is the father, then she doesn't need a court order.
 

GDPR

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Sorry, you are wondering why a court order is requisite in order to take an intimate bodily sample from a minor?? Seriously?
Does it have to be taken from an intimate place ? If it was so bad then why should agreeing parents be allowed to do this ? Surely if it causes no harm to rub a cotton swab against a childs' cheek ? Anyway a sample of hair should do.

Step 1 : Comb the childs' hair. Take sample of hair from comb

Step 2: Send it away with your own dna for testing.

Step 3: Pay for the kid as it's yours or stop paying for a strangers kid and sue the mom for fraud.


I heard a rumor you can buy over the counter DNA testing kits quite cheaply in the UK.
 

Limerick Lad

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:lol:

Why would elaboration be necessary on this? Maybe the kid's black with red hair and a big schnozz and "daddy-o" is not. Who cares?
Because it sounds more like the "friend" doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions rather than someone with genuine doubts about the true paternity of the child as evidenced by his concern that a DNA test using just samples from the putative father and the child would be 99.97% accurate as opposed to 99.999% accuracy if the mother's sample was included in the test. Clutching at straws is the phrase that comes to mind.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Because it sounds more like the "friend" doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions rather than someone with genuine doubts about the true paternity of the child as evidenced by his concern that a DNA test using just samples from the putative father and the child would be 99.97% accurate as opposed to 99.999% accuracy if the mother's sample was included in the test. Clutching at straws is the phrase that comes to mind.
Eh, no you twit. I decided to share a little information concerning DNA testing: if a sample from the mother were included, a 99.999% accurate result would be given as opposed to a 99.97% (negligible difference).

No, this individual doesn't want to be raising another man's child. Anyway, the child isn't born yet, he hasn't had time to bond with [her] and would like to know a.s.a.p. if she is his.

If one were suspicious and would like to take a sample unknown to the mother, it is not possible because maternal permission is required. So, this individual (or any other in his position) could indeed be a very diligent father who raises the child, perhaps even living in the family home, but the State has decided to limit his right confirming his child's paternity. Perhaps a socially wise move: if this were more freely available and every man in Ballymun, Finglas were to test their supposed children there would be war!

The questions concerning maintenance were my personal queries. Can anyone clarify?
 

martino

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A hair is made of protein and contains no DNA which can be analysed; a swab of epithelial cells from inside the cheek would be a better option.
 

Pabilito

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Your post is confusing.

Are you saying that a man can not have a DNA test in Ireland for a child without the mothers consent?
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Your post is confusing.

Are you saying that a man can not have a DNA test in Ireland for a child without the mothers consent?

NEVER EVER ASK FOR A DNA TEST UNLESS YOU ARE TOTALLY SURE OF THE RESULT

A man disputing a paternity claim should never ask for the mother's consent to a DNA test unless he has already had secret DNA tests done (and at least two, using separate samples), demonstrating that he is not the father.



Of course he should use someone else's name and address, and he must always deny that he has had these tests done, even to his own solicitor. But they are essential.

If the official, agreed or court-ordered, test shows that he actually is the father then the court will see his requesting of the test as evidence that he has demeaned the mother and rejected the child.

So he won't obtain access to his child, and the court is likely be tough on maintenance payments.
 

Pabilito

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NEVER EVER ASK FOR A DNA TEST UNLESS YOU ARE TOTALLY SURE OF THE RESULT

A man disputing a paternity claim should never ask for the mother's consent to a DNA test unless he has already had secret DNA tests done (and at least two, using separate samples), demonstrating that he is not the father.



Of course he should use someone else's name and address, and he must always deny that he has had these tests done, even to his own solicitor. But they are essential.

If the official, agreed or court-ordered, test shows that he actually is the father then the court will see his requesting of the test as evidence that he has demeaned the mother and rejected the child.

So he won't obtain access to his child, and the court is likely be tough on maintenance payments.
I asked a simple question, an answer please?
 

corelli

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Does it have to be taken from an intimate place ? If it was so bad then why should agreeing parents be allowed to do this ? Surely if it causes no harm to rub a cotton swab against a childs' cheek ? Anyway a sample of hair should do.

Step 1 : Comb the childs' hair. Take sample of hair from comb

Step 2: Send it away with your own dna for testing.

Step 3: Pay for the kid as it's yours or stop paying for a strangers kid and sue the mom for fraud.


I heard a rumor you can buy over the counter DNA testing kits quite cheaply in the UK.
A swab from inside the cheek is the usual method, subject to correction? My point being that the birth mother is obviously such.
 

GDPR

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A swab from inside the cheek is the usual method, subject to correction? My point being that the birth mother is obviously such.
Well you always know pretty much who your mom is but most everything else is subject to statistics.
I'm not a medical expert by any means but I'm sure a true professional, a potential parent or indeed most strangers (most of us) would not do any harm to a child for any purpose so I would'nt worry so much about the effects a dna test might have on a child while a sample is taken. The child doesn't have to know or understand whats going on. A swab inside the cheek isnt major surgery and doesn't require undressing or anything undignified. I'd imagine its' a quick painless procedure with no lasting effects beyond 60 seconds of sitting still.
 

GDPR

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A hair is made of protein and contains no DNA which can be analysed; a swab of epithelial cells from inside the cheek would be a better option.
Then why are criminals caught forensicly via hair they left behind on the scene ? Is it just circumstantial if the hair matches in color , consistency etc ?
 

scratchnsniff

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Mar 3, 2009
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NEVER EVER ASK FOR A DNA TEST UNLESS YOU ARE TOTALLY SURE OF THE RESULT

A man disputing a paternity claim should never ask for the mother's consent to a DNA test unless he has already had secret DNA tests done (and at least two, using separate samples), demonstrating that he is not the father.



Of course he should use someone Else's name and address, and he must always deny that he has had these tests done, even to his own solicitor. But they are essential.

If the official, agreed or court-ordered, test shows that he actually is the father then the court will see his requesting of the test as evidence that he has demeaned the mother and rejected the child.

So he won't obtain access to his child, and the court is likely be tough on maintenance payments.
Not that i am in a position to worry (My progeny is sitting next to me, expounding on his rights over mine visa vi the TV) But this is good advise.
The courts and society as a whole are biased against fathers, and will not take into account that a father in some circumstances would not be sure of paternity before becoming emotionally involved with a child. A dangerous thing for man and child if he later finds he is not the dad.
Woman of course can not have this problem, which is why its such a great tool for questioning a mans devotion to his child.
 

hopi watcher

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Jan 2, 2008
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No doubt the terrible twins (Foghorn & hopi) will be along to explain all! :mrgreen:
I see you can't help yourself!!!. I would have thought that all of this is very straight forward and hardly needs any explanation, even in your case.
 
Last edited:

Baron von Biffo

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:lol:

Why would elaboration be necessary on this? Maybe the kid's black with red hair and a big schnozz and "daddy-o" is not. Who cares?
Paddy is on his death bed being comforted by his wife and sons. Paddy Óg, and Mossie are fine strapping men but Iggy is a scrawny, sickly specimen. "Lads would ye go out for a minute, I want to talk to your mother." says Paddy.

When the sons leave the room he turns to his wife of 50 years and says, "Clothilde, I have to know before I die - Is Iggy my son?"

"That I might be struck down on the spot if he isn't." replies Clothilde.

With that Paddy passes away, his face a mask of joy.

Clothilde wipes a tear from her eye and sighs, "Thanks be to God he didn't ask about the other two."
 
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