Fathers4Justice Want to Control Women's Bodies

bactrian

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Fathers4Justice launch Eighth Amendment poster campaign | BreakingNews.ie

Channelling the slogan "A Dog is For Life, Not Just for Christmas" the Fathers4Justice have come up with "A Father is for Life not Just Conception "

"Said F4J founder Matt O’Connor, "It takes a man and a woman to create a child, yet there is no recognition of this in the constitution. We want it to be amended to give adequate protection to the rights of the father."
"If there is a referendum on the eighth amendment, the question of the rights of the father needs to be considered. Why should dads be given no choice when it comes to the unborn child?""


First a few admissions

a. I am a man.
b. I am more in favour of amending the 8th than repealing it.
c. I accept that sometimes abortion is the "least worst option "


One of the accusations made by the "Pro-Choice" activists is that "men are trying to control women's bodies". It seems to me that this campaign by Fathers4Justice is attempting to do just that. If there is a conflict between the pregnant woman's right to bodily integrity and the unborn child , there are only 2(two) interests which require consideration ,the woman and the unborn. No one else.


It also seems to me that ,a natural corollary of the idea that, I(a man) have a Right to interfere with the bodily integrity of a woman to Stop her having an abortion ,is that , I (a man) have an equal and balancing Right to interfere with her bodily integrity and Insist that she have an abortion. That is a truly frightening and disgusting concept
 


Mercurial

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I'm a bit puzzled by one of the lines in the link:

"Why should dads be given no choice when it comes to the unborn child?"

Presumably because they're not the ones carrying the unborn child.

What sort of choices could he be referring to here? (Specifically, choices regarding the unborn child, and not choices regarding the child after it is born)
 

Truth.ie

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I'm a bit puzzled by one of the lines in the link:

"Why should dads be given no choice when it comes to the unborn child?"

Presumably because they're not the ones carrying the unborn child.

What sort of choices could he be referring to here? (Specifically, choices regarding the unborn child, and not choices regarding the child after it is born)
Dad's should have no say over their kids.
Just pay the cash every month and stfu.
 

ivnryn

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It seems a little vague what they actually want.

If they are asking for a "paper abortion" system, then it goes against the slogan that a child is for life.

They might want a paper abortion in the other direction? The father signs a form saying that he will accept 100% of the responsibility for the child and then gets full custody after the child is born. The mother has no responsibilities, but is not allowed to abort. The father would also have to cover medical costs associated with the pregnancy that the mother would otherwise have to pay. The form could also cover things like visitation rights.

This could result in fewer abortions, if the mother is aborting due to being unwilling to care for the child, rather than also being unwilling to go through pregnancy.
 

Mercurial

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Dad's should have no say over their kids.
Just pay the cash every month and stfu.
The starting point when it comes to policy in this area, should be the best interests of the child. It seems to me that there is probably a strong case for ensuring that both parents have the opportunity to be involved in their child's life, all else being equal, but the need to provide this should be based in the interests of the child, not the parents.

Either way, that doesn't really tell us anything about these kinds of cases, where the child in question hasn't even left its mother's womb.
 

Erudite Caveman

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I'm a bit puzzled by one of the lines in the link:

"Why should dads be given no choice when it comes to the unborn child?"

Presumably because they're not the ones carrying the unborn child.

What sort of choices could he be referring to here? (Specifically, choices regarding the unborn child, and not choices regarding the child after it is born)
I'm a bit puzzled that you are puzzled.
 

Truth.ie

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The starting point when it comes to policy in this area, should be the best interests of the child. It seems to me that there is probably a strong case for ensuring that both parents have the opportunity to be involved in their child's life, all else being equal, but the need to provide this should be based in the interests of the child, not the parents.

Either way, that doesn't really tell us anything about these kinds of cases, where the child in question hasn't even left its mother's womb.
In what scenario would abortion be in the best interests of the child?
 

Mercurial

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In what scenario would abortion be in the best interests of the child?
For example, if the alternative was that the child would otherwise endure extreme pain and die shortly after being born.

(But it isn't obvious that foetuses have the same interests as children who have been born.)
 

stopdoingstuff

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If they don't have a choice in the outcome, then why should they have financial responsibility? Responsibility and choice go together and separating them is yet another example of a lobby group looking for special treatment- externalize the cost, privatize the benefits. IBEC with fannies.
 

Truth.ie

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For example, if the alternative was that the child would otherwise endure extreme pain and die shortly after being born.

(But it isn't obvious that foetuses have the same interests as children who have been born.)
So,you admit that if the child is healthy, it's not in their best interest.
 

Feckkit

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Another abortion thread, just in time for the weekend?

Yerra fukkit, this won't take off at all.

What were you thinking!
 

Polly Ticks

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No. No. And no.

Hands off, noses retracted, medical and legal instruments put away.

It is very much the father's business, but the father's business --whether he likes it or not-- is to support the mother's decision.

If abortion is unthinkable to you as a man, then don't f*ck around, or you will find that you are just as much to 'blame' for any abortion that results as the mother even though it's not your decision to make.

The end.
 

Truth.ie

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No. No. And no.

Hands off, noses retracted, medical and legal instruments put away.

It is very much the father's business, but the father's business --whether he likes it or not-- is to support the mother's decision.

If abortion is unthinkable to you as a man, then don't f*ck around, or you will find that you are just as much to 'blame' for any abortion that results as the mother even though it's not your decision to make.

The end.
You think all decisions to abort are due to men "fcking around"?
You think men can make any decision they want as long as its the same as the Mothers'?
The End?
 

Polly Ticks

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You think all decisions to abort are due to men "fcking around"?
You think men can make any decision they want as long as its the same as the Mothers'?
The End?
No. That's just one scenario.

Nobody is saying men can't express their feelings... the reality though is that the decision (and the power that comes with it) belongs to the woman alone.

I'm a pacifist, so I have real problems with some aspects of abortion, but bodily autonomy and freedom from government interference and freedom to control your own body is a pretty feckin' important thing whether you are male or female!
 

talkingshop

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If they don't have a choice in the outcome, then why should they have financial responsibility? Responsibility and choice go together and separating them is yet another example of a lobby group looking for special treatment- externalize the cost, privatize the benefits. IBEC with fannies.
You have a choice - don't impregnate a woman. Once you do, you lose your choice.
 

Half Nelson

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...

First a few admissions

a. I am a man.
b. I am more in favour of amending the 8th than repealing it.
c. I accept that sometimes abortion is the "least worst option "

..
Just so we're clear - what do you consider to be an option worse than killing an unborn child?
 

Half Nelson

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For example, if the alternative was that the child would otherwise endure extreme pain and die shortly after being born.

(But it isn't obvious that foetuses have the same interests as children who have been born.)
Eh... what do you think abortion does to a child?
 

McTell

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No
Just so we're clear - what do you consider to be an option worse than killing an unborn child?


Umm, where a 14-year old girl is shagged until she's pregnant by her father, tries to go to england for an abortion, and the State goes to court to stop her? The X case.

Where a mother of 6 is raped by a stranger and can't face going to term?

Lots of worse options, some of us don't think it's "killing", but it's never an easy decision.
 

GDPR

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Who cares what F$J say? they're a joke outfit. When they were actually given an opportunity to get involved in amending the Childrens Act in 2013, they were all down the pub.

My favourite was the member who skipped out of court appointed and court enforced visits to his child because he was taking part in a protest against the courts which upheld his visitation rights.

Ass-h*oles.
 


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