Fear of immigration driven by lack of education says TD

gnash1970

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Eddie Collins said:
Immigration effect on:

Working class: Intolerable pressure on jobs, schooling, housing, healthcare, infrastructure, increased crime, dangerous estates infested by gangs.

Wealthy classes: cheaper labour, private schooling, private healthcare, no job competition, comfortable housing in low crime areas.
Do you know of a single "dangerous estate infested by gangs" in Ireland whose population is mostly immigrant?
 


Clanrickard

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Mujaahid said:
gnash1970 said:
Funny. If you look at countries ranked in terms of human development, political stability, economic success, quality of life, health, political freedom and a huge raft of other criteria (as assessed by PC goons like the Economist and Mercer's) multi-ethnic societies are the top scorers on just about every list. ?
Good point gnash!
I have a good point as well. Muslim countries are bottom of the same lists. Also as someone who is against liberalism and who is, doubtless, a member of an organisation dedicated to overthrowing liberalism or at least sympathetic to said orgainsiation how do you square that comment "good poitngnash"? Are you agreeing that multicultural liberal democracies ARE the most successful countries? SO you espouse such socities yes?
 

myksav

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gnash1970 said:
FutureTaoiseach said:
It is not the preserve of the BNP. A number of Irish politicians have questioned multiculturalism, as seen in a Labour politician calling for the banning of the hijab in schools, and others including in FF like Chris Andrews following the no to Lisbon has spoken of the disadvantages of diversity in the Dail recently.
Funny. If you look at countries ranked in terms of human development, political stability, economic success, quality of life, health, political freedom and a huge raft of other criteria (as assessed by PC goons like the Economist and Mercer's) multi-ethnic societies are the top scorers on just about every list. If multiculturalism is a failed philosophy how come Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Sweden etc are thriving? Do you not think it's right to characterise Britain and France as failed societies? Is that a fair assessment of life for the vast, vast majority of people in these countries? And do you not think it's massively over-simplifying things to say that the problems they've experienced have one cause: multi-culturalism?
Sweden isn't "multi-cultrualist" it's intergrationalist.
 

Clanrickard

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Clanrickard said:
Muslim countries are bottom of the same lists. Also as someone who is against liberalism and who is, doubtless, a member of an organisation dedicated to overthrowing liberalism or at least sympathetic to said orgainsiation how do you square that comment "good poitngnash"? Are you agreeing that multicultural liberal democracies ARE the most successful countries? SO you espouse such socities yes?
Holy Warrior are you there? Are you going to answer the question or not?
 

Green eyed monster

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Mujaahid said:
In an interview posted on YouTube a well known TD linked the fear of immigration in Ireland to a lack of education and poverty. This TD used the analogy of a child waking up in the night with a nightmare, and said you can't rationalize with a child and say the monster does not exist.... So those who fear immigration are uneducated, poor and irrational children - good synopsis :D
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3V1N-Q1z6Fc&feature=related
To attach a label of ignorant, poor (class bigotry from a Labour party member - very noughties) and immature to a point of view which is held by people from all walks of life worldwide is a simplistic generalisation and indicates to me that our T.D's should think of reading and learning a bit more themselves, especially when the lesson of the consequences of taking the electorate for granted has already been dished out several weeks ago. We only need to look at the North to see that immigration (especially that which does not assimilate) is proven capable of creating huge problems further down the road - that's not me selling a political argument - that's just a fact. Not that i am trying to undermine NI Protestant/settler-descendents right to be there, it has been 400 years.

Ireland will show its commitment to multicultural integration when the Dail has a multiplicity of colours, cultures and creeds - all working together to shape new Ireland.
Why does a country even need different cultures, colours and creeds? Especially an ancient one longtime settled with a very strong sense of cultural and ethnic cohesion. As more cultures/religions etc move in, Ireland will become like New York or worse - Paris - even the rural areas, to be honest i would prefer a nearly completely homogenous Irish nation, i believe we are worthy of preservation (although Irish politicians sometimes make me question that conviction), i don't believe there is anything deficient in us that needs replacement by other cultures or peoples. Don't mind what certain 'well educated' liberal types say, their link to and love of the country is often weaker than the 'ignorant' types - education sometimes can breed a kind of international, postmodern, relativistic outlook all too common in the type, they also speak the language of political correctness and have been indoctrinated like dummies into believing that taking any position other than multiculturalism is racism. I will be blunt, i value Irish genetic lines from pre-history into the (i hope) far distant future, i have a spiritual attachment to the idea that they are important in some way (perhaps it's just an abstraction of the instinct to pass on genes, in continuity).

Just to clarify one point though - Ireland's natural increase in population is not in decline!
It's around balanced just right now, inevitably it will decline just like almost every other country in Europe. In addition, you have made a case against immigration since the main drive for it especially in Europe has been a falling natural population - an ageing population.

Funny. If you look at countries ranked in terms of human development, political stability, economic success, quality of life, health, political freedom and a huge raft of other criteria (as assessed by PC goons like the Economist and Mercer's) multi-ethnic societies are the top scorers on just about every list. ?
Those are very much PC organisations, there is no mutual exclusivity between being economically neo-liberal and being PC about things like gender rights, 'multiculturalism' etc. In fact bringing in plentiful cheap labour when required (and if necessary to undercut local wages) is very dear to the heart of economic liberals. If you look at a list from 400 years ago you will find that most of those countries were scoring highest then too - despite their monoculturalism, correlation does not equal causality.
 

madura

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Mujaahid said:
FutureTaoiseach said:
No. It is driven by the burden on our health and education systems and job displacement. There are benefits and disadvantages to immigration, so let's not be PC about it. During a recession we need tighter controls to protect Irish jobs. Charity begins at home. And remember this - criticising immigration - a process - is not the same as attacking immigrants. It is the failed govt policies that are at issue, including foisting the failed ideology of multiculturalism (as seen in France and the UK) on Ireland.
FT - multiculturalism was not and is not a failed ideology, that's BNP talk man. There are however inadequacies in the application and for many multiculturalism was simply saris and curries. There was no attempt to integrate immigrants, it was tokenism - that was the failure. Ireland will show its commitment to multicultural integration when the Dail has a multiplicity of colours, cultures and creeds - all working together to shape new Ireland.
Right. The benefits of a traditionally Christian country like Ireland being turned into a multifaith country are widely acknowledged.

Would these "Muslim lands" you are always talking about benefit from a similar transformation, in your opinion?
 

red365

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Mujaahid said:
according to the TD the preserve of the ignorant and infantile who see monsters in every corner.
He didn't say that, nor did he say anything like that. If you have any decency you will withdraw your inaccurate comments
 

madura

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red365 said:
Mujaahid said:
according to the TD the preserve of the ignorant and infantile who see monsters in every corner.
He didn't say that, nor did he say anything like that. If you have any decency you will withdraw your inaccurate comments
Presumably he made the kind of point he has made before, namely that fear of immigration is strongest among those whose jobs are most likely to be threatened by those prepared to work for low wages, a sector that does not include educated professionals, journalists or politicians.
 

Stíofán

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madura said:
Presumably he made the kind of point he has made before, namely that fear of immigration is strongest among those whose jobs are most likely to be threatened by those prepared to work for low wages, a sector that does not include educated professionals, journalists or politicians.
Surely that is a logical assertion, is it not? I'm sure he doesn't think it is limited to this group, but it's rational to think that fear of immigration would be strongest where it's impact is felt the most - in jobs, schools, housing - and that is almost exclusively in poor, working class communities.
 

red365

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madura said:
red365 said:
Mujaahid said:
according to the TD the preserve of the ignorant and infantile who see monsters in every corner.
He didn't say that, nor did he say anything like that. If you have any decency you will withdraw your inaccurate comments
Presumably he made the kind of point he has made before, namely that fear of immigration is strongest among those whose jobs are most likely to be threatened by those prepared to work for low wages, a sector that does not include educated professionals, journalists or politicians.
Exactly.
 

bob3344

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Fear of immigration without integration is valid. You only have to look at the experiences of the UK, France, Holland, Denmark etc to illustrate the dangers.

Multiculturalism is a failed ideology.

One thing which cannot be questioned is that Ireland has handled immigration badly.

To go from 0% - 10% or 15% of total population in 10 years is excessive.

Ireland will get more immigrants than it needs from the Eu.

Non-Eu immigrants should be screened as in Australia - decide which skillsets you need, and develop a points system. Should be fairly strightforward you might think, but unfortunately, there are many morons who will bleat 'racism, racism' as they do to just about anything.
 

Mujaahid

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madura said:
Mujaahid said:
FutureTaoiseach said:
No. It is driven by the burden on our health and education systems and job displacement. There are benefits and disadvantages to immigration, so let's not be PC about it. During a recession we need tighter controls to protect Irish jobs. Charity begins at home. And remember this - criticising immigration - a process - is not the same as attacking immigrants. It is the failed govt policies that are at issue, including foisting the failed ideology of multiculturalism (as seen in France and the UK) on Ireland.
FT - multiculturalism was not and is not a failed ideology, that's BNP talk man. There are however inadequacies in the application and for many multiculturalism was simply saris and curries. There was no attempt to integrate immigrants, it was tokenism - that was the failure. Ireland will show its commitment to multicultural integration when the Dail has a multiplicity of colours, cultures and creeds - all working together to shape new Ireland.
Right. The benefits of a traditionally Christian country like Ireland being turned into a multifaith country are widely acknowledged.

Would these "Muslim lands" you are always talking about benefit from a similar transformation, in your opinion?
Absolutely
 

CelticAtheist

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Unsurprising.

I think a lot of people mix up illegal immigrants with legal ones..
The difference being, the legal ones have the right to be here, while the illegals are criminals who must be dealt with efficiently by the judicial system.

As for closing the borders etc etc, I would view that as very unwise in the long run.
The immigrant population houses many gifted individuals, just waiting for opportunity.
If we give it to them, they will at least partially integrate, then we effectively nick the genius out of other countries.

A good example would be China. Many gifted individuals have fled the oul C.C.P. and come to Ireland.
In my opinion, only language (or racism) bars them from becoming very productive members of Irish society.
Many of them have overcome this, and already achieved much.
These bars must be lifted if Ireland wishes to remain competitive on the intellectual market.
 

louis bernard

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Immigrants from outside the EU should be few and then confined to specialist disciplines. Under no circumstances should we take in any unskilled immigrants from outside the EU. We have more than enough of our own.
 

Mujaahid

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louis bernard said:
Immigrants from outside the EU should be few and then confined to specialist disciplines. Under no circumstances should we take in any unskilled immigrants from outside the EU. We have more than enough of our own.
If every country took that stance, Ireland would be inundated with unskilled Irish expelled from every country they now benefit from - do you know how many Irish claim welfare benefits in the UK? Be careful what you wish for.
 

Catalpa

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In my opinion, only language (or racism) bars them from becoming very productive members of Irish society

What bars them is the fact that the bulk of them have overstayed their time here - they agreed to come here on limited time visas and have broken the terms and conditions of their entry.

Sure they might be good workers and don't moan and groan like some others who are here now, but if they find themselves in a legal limboland its they themselves who did it not us.

BTW There is no point criticising Irish illegals in the USA and saying we should be any less strict here.

A Solution:

We should do what the Australians did with the young Irish who headed over there and overstayed their welcome.

They basically resolved this by granting first one year then two year work visas quite easily - once your time was up woe betide those that didn't leave - summary deportation if caught!

Now it’s rare to hear of Irish illegals over there.

Do the same for the Chinese (mostly young people) in Ireland - if its good enough for our own Down Under then its good enough for others coming Over Here.
 

CelticAtheist

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Mujaahid said:
louis bernard said:
Immigrants from outside the EU should be few and then confined to specialist disciplines. Under no circumstances should we take in any unskilled immigrants from outside the EU. We have more than enough of our own.
If every country took that stance, Ireland would be inundated with unskilled Irish expelled from every country they now benefit from - do you know how many Irish claim welfare benefits in the UK? Be careful what you wish for.
We'd have approx 81 million people from the US flooding us out if the Yanks decided to expell all Irish.......
I know it sounds ridiculous, but having so many Irish Americans over here would be unbearable.

Catalpa said:
In my opinion, only language (or racism) bars them from becoming very productive members of Irish society

What bars them is the fact that the bulk of them have overstayed their time here - they agreed to come here on limited time visas and have broken the terms and conditions of their entry.

Sure they might be good workers and don't moan and groan like some others who are here now, but if they find themselves in a legal limboland its they themselves who did it not us.

BTW There is no point criticising Irish illegals in the USA and saying we should be any less strict here.

A Solution:

We should do what the Australians did with the young Irish who headed over there and overstayed their welcome.

They basically resolved this by granting first one year then two year work visas quite easily - once your time was up woe betide those that didn't leave - summary deportation if caught!

Now it’s rare to hear of Irish illegals over there.

Do the same for the Chinese (mostly young people) in Ireland - if its good enough for our own Down Under then its good enough for others coming Over Here.
I fail to see how expelling people who have found steady jobs and wish to stay is a good idea.
Keeping them and some legal naturalisation would be more effective, mainly because the party involved would want it.
 

stopthetrain

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Mujaahid said:
In an interview posted on YouTube a well known TD linked the fear of immigration in Ireland to a lack of education and poverty. This TD used the analogy of a child waking up in the night with a nightmare, and said you can't rationalize with a child and say the monster does not exist.... So those who fear immigration are uneducated, poor and irrational children - good synopsis :D
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3V1N-Q1z6Fc&feature=related
Sometime human being always takes fact as inadmissible and anecdotal but it isn't always, what we can do or could do is to continue to educate the illitrates that this is the ways and the fact about it. :mrgreen:
 

louis bernard

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Mujaahid said:
louis bernard said:
Immigrants from outside the EU should be few and then confined to specialist disciplines. Under no circumstances should we take in any unskilled immigrants from outside the EU. We have more than enough of our own.
If every country took that stance, Ireland would be inundated with unskilled Irish expelled from every country they now benefit from - do you know how many Irish claim welfare benefits in the UK? Be careful what you wish for.
Both Ireland and the UK are part of the EU. Irish citizens are entitled to claim social welfare in the UK, and visa versa. We do not need nor want unskilled people from outside the EU in Ireland. How countries outside the EU manage their immigration policies is their business. (On a personal note, I think the US government should deport all illegal Irish.) And of course, all illegals in this country should be deported as a matter of urgency, and our border controls tightened up to ensure we get no more of them.
 

louis bernard

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stopthetrain said:
Mujaahid said:
In an interview posted on YouTube a well known TD linked the fear of immigration in Ireland to a lack of education and poverty. This TD used the analogy of a child waking up in the night with a nightmare, and said you can't rationalize with a child and say the monster does not exist.... So those who fear immigration are uneducated, poor and irrational children - good synopsis :D
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3V1N-Q1z6Fc&feature=related
Sometime human being always takes fact as inadmissible and anecdotal but it isn't always, what we can do or could do is to continue to educate the illitrates that this is the ways and the fact about it. :mrgreen:
Trolling away for all your worth, you never tire do you? It must be very taxing, making up all that rubbish.
 


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