FF and the no confidence motion in Simon Harris

hollandia

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The Irish Times reported two days ago that a no confidence motion "was likely" to be tabled against Minister Simon Harris by SF in the coming days.

Sinn Féin to table no-confidence motion in Simon Harris

This was confirmed as next Wednesday by Dep. Louise O'Reilly on Late debate last night.

I have more than a little sympathy here, for Mr Harris - unusually for a FG Minister - but the Health Service is in such a disastrous state, that taking the job of Health Minister is nothing short of a slow political suicide, and now that the previous incumbent is in the Taoiseach's seat, short of a reshuffle, there's nowhere really for the current Minister to move to.

That said, he was less than honest in Dail Eireann (this is by no means unique among politicians...) about the Children's Hospital overspend, and has rightly apologised and corrected the record.

Interestingly, having created the kerfuffle about the overspend, FF have indicated that they will not vote no confidence in the minister.

As an aside to this - Late Debate also had wind of a huge row within FF regarding C&S in particular, between Barry Cowen and John McGuinness, with the latter claiming he was "asked to go independent" in a roundabout way by Barry Cowen.

Fianna Fáil's McGuinness claims he was 'indirectly' asked to 'go independent' after clash with Cowen

So, are cracks appearing in FF's support for the current government, and has next Wednesday's vote got the potential to widen that crack?
 
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tsarbomb

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The Irish Times reported two days ago that a no confidence motion "was likely" to be tabled against Minister Simon Harris by SF in the coming days.

Sinn Féin to table no-confidence motion in Simon Harris

This was confirmed as next Wednesday by Dep. Louise O'Reilly on Late debate last night.

I have more than a little sympathy here, for Mr Harris - unusually for a FG Minister - but the Health Service is in such a disastrous state, that taking the job of Health Minister is nothing short of a slow political suicide, and now that the previous incumbent is in the Taoiseach's seat, short of a reshuffle, there's nowhere really for the current Minister to move to.

That said, he was less than honest in Dail Eireann (this is by no means unique among politicians...) about the Children's Hospital overspend, and has rightly apologised and corrected the record.

Interestingly, having created the kerfuffle about the overspend, FF have indicated that they will not vote no confidence in the minister.

As an aside to this - Late Debate also had wind of a huge row within FF regarding C&S in particular, between Barry Cowen and John McGuinness, with the latter claiming he was "asked to go independent" in a roundabout way by Barry Cowen.

Fianna Fáil's McGuinness claims he was 'indirectly' asked to 'go independent' after clash with Cowen

So, are cracks appearing in FF's support for the current government, and has next Wednesday's vote got the potential to widen that crack?
You should read over what you write before you post it. Pure drivel.
 

SPN

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The structural problem here lies with the senior management in Angola (The Department of Health).

Sacking a Minister just makes them stronger.

Hopefully Harris is now motivated to go in and clean house. Varadkar and Martin have both been Minister for Angola previously, as has Michael Noonan. Those three must surely be motivated to support him and help him make a success of a long overdue clean out.

Sinn Fein are only interested in winding up Fianna Fail. They have never been in Government, so they have no experience of how the Sir Humphreys operate.

But after the next election, whenever SF and FF are forming the new Government, SF will be very glad to find that Harris and Varadkar have fixed that problem for them.
 

statsman

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The Irish Times reported two days ago that a no confidence motion "was likely" to be tabled against Minister Simon Harris by SF in the coming days.

Sinn Féin to table no-confidence motion in Simon Harris

This was confirmed as next Wednesday by Dep. Louise O'Reilly on Late debate last night.

I have more than a little sympathy here, for Mr Harris - unusually for a FG Minister - but the Health Service is in such a disastrous state, that taking the job of Health Minister is nothing short of a slow political suicide, and now that the previous incumbent is in the Taoiseach's seat, short of a reshuffle, there's nowhere really for the current Minister to move to.

That said, he was less than honest in Dail Eireann (this is by no means unique among politicians...) about the Children's Hospital overspend, and has rightly apologised and corrected the record.

Interestingly, having created the kerfuffle about the overspend, FF have indicated that they will not vote no confidence in the minister.

As an aside to this - Late Debate also had wind of a huge row within FF regarding C&S in particular, between Barry Cowen and John McGuinness, with the latter claiming he was "asked to go independent" in a roundabout way by Barry Cowen.

Fianna Fáil's McGuinness claims he was 'indirectly' asked to 'go independent' after clash with Cowen

So, are cracks appearing in FF's support for the current government, and has next Wednesday's vote got the potential to widen that crack?
Or are FF trying their old trick of running with the hare and hunting with the hounds? It can't be easy being Schrödinger's opposition.
 

hollandia

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You should read over what you write before you post it. Pure drivel.
Care to explain why? It's just that generally when someone goes straight to ad hom they have something to hide
 

hollandia

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The structural problem here lies with the senior management in Angola (The Department of Health).

Sacking a Minister just makes them stronger.

Hopefully Harris is now motivated to go in and clean house. Varadkar and Martin have both been Minister for Angola previously, as has Michael Noonan. Those three must surely be motivated to support him and help him make a success of a long overdue clean out.

Sinn Fein are only interested in winding up Fianna Fail. They have never been in Government, so they have no experience of how the Sir Humphreys operate.

But after the next election, whenever SF and FF are forming the new Government, SF will be very glad to find that Harris and Varadkar have fixed that problem for them.
Tbh, I see FG and SF forming the next government. Less so, FF (unless martin is removed).
 

SPN

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Tbh, I see FG and SF forming the next government. Less so, FF (unless martin is removed).
It could happen, but I doubt it.

There would be war at FG grassroots if that were to happen.

Probably at SF grassroots as well.

SF and FF are two sides of the same arse, so there wouldn't be such massive cultural barriers to overcome if it meant snouts in the trough.
 

hollandia

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It could happen, but I doubt it.

There would be war at FG grassroots if that were to happen.

Probably at SF grassroots as well.

SF and FF are two sides of the same arse, so there wouldn't be such massive cultural barriers to overcome if it meant snouts in the trough.
There'll be grass roots damage whichever permutation of the big three there are.
 
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statsman

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There'll be grass roots damage whichever permutation of the big three there are.
A lot of SF members won't want to go in with either FF or FF.

A lot of FF members won't want to touch SF or FG.

A lot of FG members can't stand FF and SF.

But at the end of it all, we'll end up with a government, and FG have the benefit of being in possession and having the largest number of seats, unless something changes drastically over the next 12 months or so.
 

hollandia

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A lot of SF members won't want to go in with either FF or FF.

A lot of FF members won't want to touch SF or FG.

A lot of FG members can't stand FF and SF.

But at the end of it all, we'll end up with a government, and FG have the benefit of being in possession and having the largest number of seats, unless something changes drastically over the next 12 months or so.
Quite. Labour are going nowhere fast, and I suspect there won't be quite as many independents next time - especially of the variety that FG would like to do business with.
 

statsman

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Quite. Labour are going nowhere fast, and I suspect there won't be quite as many independents next time - especially of the variety that FG would like to do business with.
Plus, I get the feeling that FG have had quite enough of the Indos, thank you very much.
 

PO'Neill

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Tbh, I see FG and SF forming the next government. Less so, FF (unless martin is removed).
Quite. Labour are going nowhere fast, and I suspect there won't be quite as many independents next time - especially of the variety that FG would like to do business with.
So you think SF want to go the exact same way by being in coalition with the shirts for a few short years to ruin themselves for after ? What for, a vague promise by FG to push for a border poll in the north ?
 

hollandia

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So you think SF want to go the exact same way by being in coalition with the shirts for a few short years to ruin themselves for after ? What for, a vague promise by FG to push for a border poll in the north ?
I'd imagine a border poll will be along at that point.
 

PO'Neill

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I'd imagine a border poll will be along at that point.
So what reasons you think SF want to go the exact same way as Labour by being in coalition with the shirts for a few short years to ruin themselves indefinitely for years after ? Do you think the Shinners will drop the long game for a short stint in coalition with FG ? And risk the turmoil that would cause to SF in north ?
 

WayOutWest

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Plus, I get the feeling that FG have had quite enough of the Indos, thank you very much.
Why would anybody want to rely on a useless bunch of independents especially a party like FG who themselves are blessed with a multitude of competent politicians.
 

Northsideman

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Why would anybody want to rely on a useless bunch of independents especially a party like FG who themselves are blessed with a multitude of competent politicians.
Who are these multitude of competents? Just throw out 7 or 8 names.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
It could happen, but I doubt it.

There would be war at FG grassroots if that were to happen.

Probably at SF grassroots as well.

SF and FF are two sides of the same arse, so there wouldn't be such massive cultural barriers to overcome if it meant snouts in the trough.
Would be a massive mistake in the medium to long term for SF to get into bed with either Tweedledee or Tweedledum. However the Greens and Labour were told the same and they came out with that utter balls about providing restraint from the inside- and promptly were pasted pretty much out of existence after a few years of half-cars.

Sinn Fein would be mad to get carried away with any overtures from FF or FG. Much better to be the clear opposition as they are making long strides in that direction now with FF peeping out of Fine Gael's tailpipe.
 

PO'Neill

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It could happen, but I doubt it.

There would be war at FG grassroots if that were to happen.

Probably at SF grassroots as well.

SF and FF are two sides of the same arse, so there wouldn't be such massive cultural barriers to overcome if it meant snouts in the trough.
That's why SF are also propping up FG and not taking swipes at them whenever the chance arises ?
 

hollandia

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So what reasons you think SF want to go the exact same way as Labour by being in coalition with the shirts for a few short years to ruin themselves indefinitely for years after ? Do you think the Shinners will drop the long game for a short stint in coalition with FG ? And risk the turmoil that would cause to SF in north ?
You're making the presumption that SF would roll over and have their bellies tickled in the way that previous coalition partners would. They wouldn't. This is why it would work, in my opinion. And perhaps the largest reason why it hasn't happened yet. SF would like to be in government, butt don't actually need to be, in the way Labour does.
 

hollandia

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That's why SF are also propping up FG and not taking swipes at them whenever the chance arises ?
They have backed FG in opposition to FF on at least one occasion. Judicial appointments bill.
 


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