FF are not the problem, they are the VEHICLE for the problem.

Joined
Jun 9, 2007
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18,709
Yes, of course I want them gone, I have been fighting them more than most for the last 13 years. But let's not delude ourselves.

Bertie Ahern and his backstreet mates BOASTED on the RTE documentary about him that they essentially used FF as a vehicle to get their man to power. They laughed as they described how they intimidated out the old boys of FF Dublin North Central and George Colley, even though Ahern had no prior involvement or affinity with FF. They boasted about their plan to get Ahern to power within 20 years, which, as they smugly said, they achieved. They were entryists. They hijacked Fianna Fáil's local party organisation as a means to an end - to gain power.

Fianna Fáil is not the proble, Fianna Fáil was a vehicle for the problem.

And that's what people need to be aware of. Yes, FF might be forced out for a generation, but the vermin, the nepotists, the sociopaths, the criminals, and the others who have helped screw our country up, will simply find another means to their end - their own self-promotion to power. Do you seriously think the likes of Ahern or Lawlor, or any of the others, would have touched FF with a bargepole had FF been a small minority party of little influence? Of course not. The next generation of Aherns will simply choose the path of least resistance, and they will judge that it is no longer FF.

So, yes, FF's destruction, if it happens, will be a good thing, and unfortunately far too late. But without strong legislation and proper leadership, plus a sea-change in culture in this country, what made FF what it was will only swap vehicles. There needs to be wholesale electoral reform and a means of preventing the kind of short-termist irresponsibility and vote-buying, and the corruption, that has characterized FF administrations over the last 40-odd years.
 


jackryan

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They do reflect a certain culture in this country! they would never have been so successful unless they did!
 

gombeennation

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Oct 6, 2009
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true. if it wasnt FF it would have been whatever party was top at the time.
the way to solve this problem is to hold these scum bags to account.
no tribunal ... just trials.
let them pay up for their crimes - im talking do time here - not fines.
thats the only way.
unfortunately for the irish - it will be FG + Lab in power next time - and both are bad at holding people to account.

i remember enda saying john o donoghue expenses was case closed when he wrote that pathetic letter.

i remember WOD first shot against him was SF.

where was FG or LAB in the by elections? SF to the rescue of democracy in ireland - never thought i would see the day.

these are just 3 examples where FF should have been pummelled.
but no - enda was too cute. moron.

just to be clear , i think FG/Lab will be less corrupt in the short to medium term.
 

anewbeginning

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Jan 20, 2009
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4,616
I'm sorry but Fianna Fail are the problem.

Any complacence about this risks a return to where we are.

FF have been given an easy ride for years from the electorate and the media. FF still wrap the flag around them and have abused the names of those who fought for Irish freedom.

The current FF bear no more relation to the martyrs of 1916 than the British soldiers of the time.

We need a complete De-Failification of the state. Every last one of them.
 

Squire Allworthy

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May 31, 2007
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1,404
true. if it wasnt FF it would have been whatever party was top at the time.
the way to solve this problem is to hold these scum bags to account.
no tribunal ... just trials.
let them pay up for their crimes - im talking do time here - not fines.
thats the only way.
+1

You really should not put up with this sort of nonsense. Demand better.
 

SilverLining

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Jun 7, 2009
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1,364
Fianna Fail and Fine Gael the Terrible Twins of Irish politics. Now is the time to get rid of them both. They have done enough damage between. Stop now before they make things only worse.
 

picador

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Feb 19, 2009
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20,659
FF are not the problem, they are the VEHICLE for the problem

Is this something to do with the Black Death?
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
18,709
I'm sorry but Fianna Fail are the problem.

Any complacence about this risks a return to where we are.

FF have been given an easy ride for years from the electorate and the media. FF still wrap the flag around them and have abused the names of those who fought for Irish freedom.

The current FF bear no more relation to the martyrs of 1916 than the British soldiers of the time.

We need a complete De-Failification of the state. Every last one of them.
The risk is that the complacency is in believing that the (very welcome, if it happens) removal of FF from power for a long period will mean that the political system will at last be free from gombeenism, corruption, nepotism, and all the rest. It won't. Be under no illusion about how much I want them gone, destroyed if possible. But also be under no illusion, the lack of a Fianna Fáil would not have stopped Ahern and his friends - they would simply have used another vehicle. And there will be new Aherns, Fianna Fáil or no Fianna Fáil...
 

jackryan

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Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
3,723
I'm sorry but Fianna Fail are the problem.

Any complacence about this risks a return to where we are.

FF have been given an easy ride for years from the electorate and the media. FF still wrap the flag around them and have abused the names of those who fought for Irish freedom.

The current FF bear no more relation to the martyrs of 1916 than the British soldiers of the time.

We need a complete De-Failification of the state. Every last one of them.
Oh yes FF are the problem but they reflect a certain facet of Irishness! Friendly, be there when needed, down to earth, looking to make a fast buck, Dodge the ould tax rules etc, 2 faced, hate the ould enemy!! etc etc.
 

spidermom

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Sep 13, 2008
Messages
9,148
FF are the problem....but purely cos they have been in power for SO long!
Any monopoly turns sour...if given long enough!!


The quote "power corrupts and absolute power" etc is oft quoted...here is the full quote....

"If there is any presumption, it is the other way, against the holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or certainty of corruption by full authority. There is no worse heresy than the fact that the office sanctifies the holder of it"


John Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


(Yes I know its the Wiki link...but its a start....!!)
 

Half Nelson

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Dec 12, 2009
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21,415
The Irish people claim they were badly led and betrayed by a corrupt and incompetent government. They make this claim before the world.
Well, the next election will show just where the blame lies.

We will be given the chance, once and for all, to demonstrate to the world the depth of our loyalties, morals and even our intellect. Currently, there remains 17% who are content with the ethos, ethics and leadership of FF. Unless that figure falls well below 10% and FF is disowned by the vast majority, then there will remain more than a grain of truth in the stereotypes and the widely held belief that the Irish don't have what it takes.

The perfect reply would be the extinction of FF.
 

Man or Mouse

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Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
7,005
The Irish people claim they were badly led and betrayed by a corrupt and incompetent government. They make this claim before the world.
Well, the next election will show just where the blame lies.

We will be given the chance, once and for all, to demonstrate to the world the depth of our loyalties, morals and even our intellect. Currently, there remains 17% who are content with the ethos, ethics and leadership of FF. Unless that figure falls well below 10% and FF is disowned by the vast majority, then there will remain more than a grain of truth in the stereotypes and the widely held belief that the Irish don't have what it takes.

The perfect reply would be the extinction of FF.
+100

If bogtrotter can do it we better get used to meeting fire with fire so to speak. :)
 

spidermom

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Sep 13, 2008
Messages
9,148
The Irish people claim they were badly led and betrayed by a corrupt and incompetent government. They make this claim before the world.
Well, the next election will show just where the blame lies.

We will be given the chance, once and for all, to demonstrate to the world the depth of our loyalties, morals and even our intellect. Currently, there remains 17% who are content with the ethos, ethics and leadership of FF. Unless that figure falls well below 10% and FF is disowned by the vast majority, then there will remain more than a grain of truth in the stereotypes and the widely held belief that the Irish don't have what it takes.

The perfect reply would be the extinction of FF.
??...perhaps..perhaps..perhaps??
 

Edo

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Any political party that has been in power for so long results in this kind of problem - FF have been in power for over 3/4 of the history of the Irish State and Ireland reflects that.

You can see the corrupting influence of that everywhere - power attracts power and the patronage FF were able to dispense during this period is testament to this.

The brief interludes of fG/Lab were only able to freeze this momentarily - I can still remember as a kid in the early 80s an FFer coming up to my dad when they were celebrating with our Local FG Td on getting into government - "enjoy it while you can - we'll be taking it all back in a couple of years - we're just taking a rest"

Who do you think has appointed virtually every civil servant, county manager, planner, judge etc etc in this country - that is real power

You can see it in the fact that FG/Lab/SF and others "control" nearly every County council/town council in the country since 2009 and a quite a number since 2004 - all they control is the council assembly - the real power lies in the permanent civil servants - in my county of Carlow - FG/Lab have had nominal control of the council since 2004 - but everybody knows the real power lies with the 4 remaining FF councillors - because ultimately all power lies with the county manager and his staff and they are not answerable to the elected councillors but to Dublin and we know who controls Dublin - it is no surprise the recent enquiry into Carlow county council by Mr Gormley came out as a complete whitewash even tho the dogs in the street in Carlow know otherwise............

but the big thing is the fear complex in folk that is generated by this - if you want to get planning decisions, tenders for state business etc etc - you have to keep on side with FF - its unreal - and it is pervasive in our society - they are like the cosa nostra - get the wrong side - you wont get the decision - you wont get the contract etc etc -

As an example - everybody here knows that Im a member of FG - I was fundraising earlier this year for our district - I was holding a cabaret social evening and was selling tickets at 5 euro a piece - we sold over 1500 tickets - yet less than 70 turned up at the event - the number of people who told me that they couldn't be seen at the event as it might effect their business or their career - but they would buy a ticket as they wanted to support us - I felt like a drug dealer with the number of people turning up at my doorstep after dark to buy a ticket.........

THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE UP AGAINST - AND DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE IT.

YET This is best opportunity we will ever have to cleans the country of this pernicious cancer - its time that the Right and Left called a temporary truce on each other and we both turned our cannons on FF from both sides - its the only way that this populist,peronist monolith can be tamed and got rid of- agree on some common political reform platform - execute it and hopefully then we can have a proper Left/Right divide and the regular changes of government and ideological direction that are the heart of all grown up liberal democracies -it wont be perfect -but at least it will be honest - and honesty and meritocracy is what this country needs more than
anything else at the moment-

the alternative is FF surviving -stealing FG ideas when it suits - stealing the lefts ideas when it suits - watering them all down and completely failing to expedite them properly - while all the time retaining power , taking care of their own and keeping the rest of us in our place - which is outside naturally.
 
Last edited:

ocoonassa

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Oct 14, 2010
Messages
6,124
Seriously though..

It's the fault of everybody who voted for a field of spectacular incompetents from across a range of parties. That's about 2,000,000 people carrying the can.

Mostly though it's the fault of those they trusted to represent them. There has been a huge betrayal there. Not just those in FG but right across the board, all those many TD's who should have been on duty and alerted us.

But where was the alarm call from ANY of the main parties? They were all asleep at the wheel or busy lining their pockets.

You need to think about that before you give them a mandate, they don't know what they are doing, not any of them. This guy knew in the vid below knew the whole future in 1998. It's not magic. Now that I've learned a few basic things about economics the whole disaster was inevitable and obvious. Clearly all the representatives were alseep at the wheel or worse. Going forward their same ineptitude is going to destroy us.

YouTube - Collapse of Irish Economy Predicted in 1998 RTE TV
 

needle_too

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Aug 7, 2007
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918
The whore isnt the cause of the disease, she is only the method of transmission.

So thats alright, then.
 

Vote_No_on_Everything

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Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
1,139
Yes, of course I want them gone, I have been fighting them more than most for the last 13 years. But let's not delude ourselves.

Bertie Ahern and his backstreet mates BOASTED on the RTE documentary about him that they essentially used FF as a vehicle to get their man to power. They laughed as they described how they intimidated out the old boys of FF Dublin North Central and George Colley, even though Ahern had no prior involvement or affinity with FF. They boasted about their plan to get Ahern to power within 20 years, which, as they smugly said, they achieved. They were entryists. They hijacked Fianna Fáil's local party organisation as a means to an end - to gain power.

Fianna Fáil is not the proble, Fianna Fáil was a vehicle for the problem.

And that's what people need to be aware of. Yes, FF might be forced out for a generation, but the vermin, the nepotists, the sociopaths, the criminals, and the others who have helped screw our country up, will simply find another means to their end - their own self-promotion to power. Do you seriously think the likes of Ahern or Lawlor, or any of the others, would have touched FF with a bargepole had FF been a small minority party of little influence? Of course not. The next generation of Aherns will simply choose the path of least resistance, and they will judge that it is no longer FF.

So, yes, FF's destruction, if it happens, will be a good thing, and unfortunately far too late. But without strong legislation and proper leadership, plus a sea-change in culture in this country, what made FF what it was will only swap vehicles. There needs to be wholesale electoral reform and a means of preventing the kind of short-termist irresponsibility and vote-buying, and the corruption, that has characterized FF administrations over the last 40-odd years.
+1

Yes I agree we must remove the vermin, the image of 'Vehicle' is indeed a good way to descrive political parties, as seperate from the oligarachs who are the vermin. Also the concept of 'Path of least resistance'.
 


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