FF planning to upstage FG - scrapping Seanad

Barnacle

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Well, well. FF are possibly trying to upstage FG by calling a referendum at the next GE to abolish the Seanad. Many Senators will not be happy as under Enda Kenny's plan, any Senator would be safe for the next five years. Under FF plan (possible plan) they might be joining the dole queue. Oh, what a tangled web we weave!

Ministers considering new plan to scrap the Seanad - News, The Budget - Independent.ie

THE Government is considering a referendum to scrap the Seanad on the same day as the General Election.

Cabinet ministers discussed the proposal at their meeting before the Budget yesterday morning.

However, no decision was taken and the plan is understood to be still on the table.

Putting forward the referendum would steal a march on Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny, who is promising to hold such a vote in the first year of a new government's term in office.

But Fine Gael's plan would mean a new group of 60 senators being elected and appointed after the Dail election and serving for the lifetime of the next Oireachtas.
 


Halo

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Following sinnf ein again. I remember first seeing doherty on the late late calling for this and the other main parties did not agree with his proposals!!!
 

Barnacle

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If a Mod is reading this, can they move this thread to Oireachtas. I think I should have posted it there.

Thanks.
 

blarney

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Well I am sure this might encourage a few more members of the parliamentary party to put their signatures to a motion against Biffo seeing as they might have nothing to lose!
 

Ah Well

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Any chance we could have a Referendum to scrap FF? Probably would be the highest turnout ever

;)
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Well, well. FF are possibly trying to upstage FG by calling a referendum at the next GE to abolish the Seanad. Many Senators will not be happy as under Enda Kenny's plan, any Senator would be safe for the next five years. Under FF plan (possible plan) they might be joining the dole queue. Oh, what a tangled web we weave!

Ministers considering new plan to scrap the Seanad - News, The Budget - Independent.ie
I might finally get to vote yes in a referendum for the first time in years :lol::lol::lol:

Although I would prefer to see a senate elected with real power to question government but that will never happen.
 

Halo

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What date?
He was on the late late in the crowd and your fella from the independent newspaper 'scruffy looking with right wing views' was sorta hosting the mini debate with pat kenny. Can anybody get this?
 

stonethrower

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Following sinnf ein again. I remember first seeing doherty on the late late calling for this and the other main parties did not agree with his proposals!!!
I also hear that Pearse discovered pencillin. Pearse is an up and coming politician with a bright future, but in fairness he has been in the Seanad for 3 years and barely made an impression, so spare us insert something about him in every thread.
 

Winalot

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The time for abolishing the Seanad has well and truly arrived. Aping the English House of Lords (as a check on the democratically elected Commons) or the American Senate (in order to recognize the individual states) was short-sighted from the beginning.
 

Halo

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I also hear that Pearse discovered pencillin. Pearse is an up and coming politician with a bright future, but in fairness he has been in the Seanad for 3 years and barely made an impression, so spare us insert something about him in every thread.
Somebody will find the link.
 

TommyO'Brien

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A couple of problems.

1. They would get damn all kudos. But FG would, as FF would be seen to be scrambling after a FG idea because they had no ideas of their own.

2. FG didn't just propose to abolish the Seanad but to reform the Dáil in tandem, with a reformed Dáil stepping into the role currently played by two ineffective houses. Abolishing the Seanad without reforming the Dáil at the same time would be a mess.

3. FF and the Greens both rubbished FG's idea as unworkable. So what would it do to their already rock bottom credibility to have to contradict what they themselves said?

4. To draft the amendment to do it would take six months as it would be complex. Unless the government's game is to use the delay needed to draft the amendment to keep themselves in power longer, I cannot see it as being workable in the timeframe up to an election in February or March.

That ultimately may be their game - to buy time and stay in power longer.
 

anewbeginning

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I hope they also have a referendum to reduce the size of the Dail to a more affordable level.

Of course we all know Fianna Fail will be wiped out in the Seanad as well following the next election and the big losers will be FG and Labour.

However, a referendum to abolish the Seanad asap is a good start.
 
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I

idij

Well I'm no fan of the senate, but is this abolition going to include some mechanisms for reigning in the Dail when it oversteps it's bounds, for example like oh, guaranteeing the huge debts of a private industry, or denying democratic representation by withholding elections and so on?

I think this kind of constitutional change should be done as part of a wider programme of change in our governmental apparatus, not as some knee jerk populist "we don't want to pay for them" vote tagged onto the end of an important election.
 

Tea Party Patriot

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I also hear that Pearse discovered pencillin. Pearse is an up and coming politician with a bright future, but in fairness he has been in the Seanad for 3 years and barely made an impression, so spare us insert something about him in every thread.
He is also advocating changing lead into gold, water into wine and our income into taxes.
 

Ceartgoleor

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I personally disagree with any attempt to reduce representation no matter how useless it may seem. No doubt but that it could be reformed but abolition has very real and associated danger of concentrating the power of the state into fewer and fewer hands.

The less people to be bought the more dangerous for Ireland. Particular given our recent history of disreputable politicians.

For me it stands to reason, that the greater the number of TDs or Senators, the greater the chance of finding an honest one amongst them and the bigger the obstacle to corruption and bribery.

Therefore should we not in fact consider doubling the number of TDs and halving their salaries? This would shake the already cozy dynasties in situ.

Now thats what I would call a brave and imaginative policy as opposed a 'populist' policy. And FG and L being so much against populist policies would logically be inclined to support it.
 

lying eyes

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More foolish carry on the Senate should be abolished now, we cannot afford it, a pure talking shop. If the Nation wants to keep it ok, but let it be on a voluntary basis. Then we will see how many say " I want to serve the public " " It is an honour to serve"
 

Tea Party Patriot

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A couple of problems.

1. They would get damn all kudos. But FG would, as FF would be seen to be scrambling after a FG idea because they had no ideas of their own.

2. FG didn't just propose to abolish the Seanad but to reform the Dáil in tandem, with a reformed Dáil stepping into the role currently played by two ineffective houses. Abolishing the Seanad without reforming the Dáil at the same time would be a mess.

3. FF and the Greens both rubbished FG's idea as unworkable. So what would it do to their already rock bottom credibility to have to contradict what they themselves said?

4. To draft the amendment to do it would take six months as it would be complex. Unless the government's game is to use the delay needed to draft the amendment to keep themselves in power longer, I cannot see it as being workable in the timeframe up to an election in February or March.

That ultimately may be their game - to buy time and stay in power longer.
I will give Enda Kenny credit for being the first to propose this, but he got a lot of flack from vested interests in FG as well at the time.

If a knee jerk reaction from FF is what is necessary to get rid of what is a talking shop for apprentice TDs, retired TDs and cronies then I will still welcome it.

We are never going to get real reform of the upper house so it can question government, and in this case we are better off without it.

As for 6 months to draft an amendment, I would be surprised if a few good legal brains couldn't draft one in a week. I think the former time frame of 6 months made for nice legal fees, if they know time isn't on thier side they will come up with the wording and get the bills in quick before an election.
 


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