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FF will attempt to block Budget in Seanad


LDF

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Miriam Lord has a piece in today's Irish Times stating that FF will attempt to block Budget 2013 in Seanad Eireann. They will need the help of some Labour Senators to do so. If they succeed the budget measures will be returned to the Dáil for further debate and amendments. The whole process could take 90 days.

It's not impossible to believe that many of our esteemed senators may decide to demonstate their "usefulness" to the Irish people by blocking some unpopular budgetary measures.

The government majority in the Seanad is pretty tight - some of the Taoiseach's nominees have shown an independent streak and many of the Labour Senators have been struggling with their conscience in recent months as they pocketed their salaries and expenses.

I think there are a couple of points here:-

-Can we now state that FF's "constructive opposition" has come to an end and we are witnessing the Party's return to form? A delay in implementing Budget 2013 will cause serious damage to the country at a time when the govt may be making progress on legacy bank debt.

-Perhaps the Taoiseach was naive to choose Seanad nominees from outside the Party. While he did so to prove that a new era in politics had begun it will be embarrassing if some of his nominees contribute to the defeat of a budget.

-Re-opening Budget 2013 will cause chaos in Government given how difficult it was to cobble the original together. I'm not sure Labour could take the strain.

-If Labour Senators do vote the budget down then it will prove beyond doubt that Gilmore is not in control of his Party. He should then make way for someone who can or take his party out of government.





miriam lord - The Irish Times - Search
 
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Con Gallagher

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I thought that the senate didn't deal with budget at all. (I presume they can debate the Social Welfare cuts by Labour bill 2012?)
 

LDF

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There will be votes on specific budgetary measures next week in the Seanad. If any of those are defeated then the Daily will have to find alternative measures. The Govt doesn't have much leeway here.
 

Eoin Coir

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It would serve Kenny and Gilmore right if it were to be defeated. Imagine appointing among the 11 disciples the likes of the mad Mary Louise O Donnell, Martin McAleesee, Mac Conghail, Zappone etc. Reaching out and new politics may p1ss back on them.
 

wombat

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It would serve Kenny and Gilmore right if it were to be defeated. Imagine appointing among the 11 disciples the likes of the mad Mary Louise O Donnell, Martin McAleesee, Mac Conghail, Zappone etc. Reaching out and new politics may p1ss back on them.
Part of the long game to show the people what a useless institution it is.
 

slippy wicket

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What sort of thing would you expect from the ff uckers , no depth that they would plumb in their populist venality.
 

LDF

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What sort of thing would you expect from the ff uckers , no depth that they would plumb in their populist venality.
FF can't do it on their own. They will need some help from Labour Senators.
 

Eoin Coir

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i bet the Sindo will encourage its own favourite boy John Whelan to vote with FF. May have something to do with Tom Savage & wife thing too.
 

slippy wicket

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FF can't do it on their own. They will need some help from Labour Senators.
True that, and all we can hope is that craven keaveny will be the last labour slug to jump ship over these necessary measures.
 

Keith-M

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Excellent move by FF. It shows that there is still an engaged opposition to the worst excess of austerity. If it succeeds it could breath life into the Seanad. If it fails then it just confirms what we already know.
 

ger12

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It would serve Kenny and Gilmore right if it were to be defeated. Imagine appointing among the 11 disciples the likes of the mad Mary Louise O Donnell, Martin McAleesee, Mac Conghail, Zappone etc. Reaching out and new politics may p1ss back on them.
I think it's more a lack of New Politics that may lead to the prospect of a defeat in the Seanad. But carry on Eoin Coir ...
 

TODevastated

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Part of the long game to show the people what a useless institution it is.
i think you give them far too much credit in thinking that they would have the capacity to dream that up

so inda thought of the 10 biggest clowns in the country (in his view) nominated them knowing they would **** up and then we would support the abolition of the senate?

this was thought up by a bacbencher of 36 years

don't buy it, sorry
 

ger12

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Eoin Coir

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i think you give them far too much credit in thinking that they would have the capacity to dream that up

so inda thought of the 10 biggest clowns in the country (in his view) nominated them knowing they would **** up and then we would support the abolition of the senate?

this was thought up by a bacbencher of 36 years

don't buy it, sorry
dont think he or his advisers would be capable of thinking that up. But the nett result may be the same. Where did they get them ?
 

Grey Area

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"I welcome the Taoiseach to the Upper House and am delighted to see him. I feel I should speak because he gave me the privilege of having a voice, as one of his appointees." - Mary Louise O Donnell

*cough/vomit* I cannot see the above voting against her master.
 

TommyO'Brien

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Sorry to rain on people's parades but the Seanad doesn't have the power to block budgets. Its role is severely restricted on finance bills by the constitution. It cannot amend money bills at all. All it can do is make 'recommendations' which the Dail can reject en bloc.

Do posters ever read their constitutions?
 
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LDF

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Sorry to rain on people's parades but the Seanad doesn't have the power to block budgets. Its role is severely restricted on finance bills by the constitution.
The Seanad can vote against a money bill - referring it back to the Dáil. The Seanad can vote against specific budgetary measures such as the cut in respite care - referring it back to the Dáil. Do you think the government will simply send the same bills back to the Seanad if they are defeated there in the hope that second time round the Senators will vote for it?

The government probably has the numbers to get this pushed through. Probably.
 

Grey Area

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Sorry to rain on people's parades but the Seanad doesn't have the power to block budgets. Its role is severely restricted on finance bills by the constitution.
That was covered in the OP!

"Bills passed by the Dáil are sent to the Seanad, where they can be amended. These amendments are considered by the Dáil. The Seanad's duty in relation to finance is limited to giving consideration, within 21 days, to Money Bills. In general, the Seanad may delay for a maximum of ninety days a Bill passed by the Dáil or may suggest changes in the Bill, but cannot block it permanently."
 

Grey Area

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Sorry to rain on people's parades but the Seanad doesn't have the power to block budgets. Its role is severely restricted on finance bills by the constitution. It cannot amend money bills at all. All it can do is make 'recommendations' which the Dail can reject en bloc.

Do posters ever read their constitutions?
Do posters ever read the OP before making ridiculous claims? Seen as you are such an expert what is the Seanad voting on next week?
 

tigerben

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That the senators can show they can make a difference and have a voice , is one thing their shouting about as a reason for not been abolished might come into play here. It really for them would make news, and show the Seanad has teeth. Politicans looking to run in the next Dail might thing this is their way of making a name for them selves. For Labour it is going to be more about how strong is Gilmore's leadership. Will he be able to keep all on board or will the life raft take on another person.
 

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