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FF's underhand campaign against abortion legislation


Thady Quill

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Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
413
While Billy Kelleher is playing the statesman on abortion in the Dáil (and being thanked by Gilbore), FF's local councillors have been playing another game.

"Sligo County Council has passed a motion on abortion legislation.
It requested that 'in keeping with the will of the Irish people - as expressed in the referendum of November 1983 - that Sligo County Council opposes any form of legislation of abortion in any circumstances other than in accordance with Article 40.3.3 of the constitution.'
Fianna Fail Cllr Martin Baker and Cllr Jerry Lundy put forward the motion at a recent meeting of the local authority."
Sligo Co Co passes motion on abortion | Ocean FM


“Leitrim County Council has passed a motion to oppose any form of legalisation of abortion under any circumstances.

Cllr Mary Bohan put forward the motion at Monday’s council meeting proposing that “in keeping with the wishes of the Irish people, as emphatically expressed in the 1983 Referendum, Leitrim County Council opposes any form of legalisation of abortion in any circumstances”.
The motion was seconded by Cllr Francis Gilmartin.”
Council backs move to oppose legalisation of abortion - Local - Leitrim Observer

Identically worded motions put forward by FF councillors, attracting little attention locally. How many other councils have passed similar motions?
This smells of an organised campaign. Who is behind it and what, if anything, does Mehole Martin have to say about it?
 


mr. jings

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Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
8,091
The party that spoke out both sides of its mouth for nearly a decade and half in power must be relishing the wanton abandon with which they can flit around in opposition...
 

Skyrocket

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Jun 23, 2010
Messages
3,904
I'm no fan of FF but this attempt to use Savita's death to smear them is pathetic.
 

Rufty

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Oct 7, 2006
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445
Fianna Fáil do not have a party line on abortion. To suggest otherwise is to play vindictive party political games with the issue. The party is split on the matter, hence no one coherent policy has been formed. Ógra has called for (and the motion was most recently endorse last November) to legislate for the X-case. Some of our politicians are for that, some are against it. There is no policy agreed by the members.
 

cricket

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Nov 7, 2009
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13,959
Fianna Fáil do not have a party line on abortion. To suggest otherwise is to play vindictive party political games with the issue. The party is split on the matter, hence no one coherent policy has been formed. Ógra has called for (and the motion was most recently endorse last November) to legislate for the X-case. Some of our politicians are for that, some are against it. There is no policy agreed by the members.
Aren't SF in the same boat ?
 

mhagain

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May 11, 2010
Messages
1,061
Fianna Fáil do not have a party line on abortion. To suggest otherwise is to play vindictive party political games with the issue. The party is split on the matter, hence no one coherent policy has been formed. Ógra has called for (and the motion was most recently endorse last November) to legislate for the X-case. Some of our politicians are for that, some are against it. There is no policy agreed by the members.
"Our policy is we have no policy", eh?
 

asterix

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Dec 19, 2008
Messages
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thelifeinstitute:
Four county councils - Donegal, Mayo, Monaghan and Leitrim have now passed pro-life motions, and at least three Town Councils - Carrickmacross, Castleblaney and Castlebar - have also followed suit.
I note they don't list Sligo. The Sligo minutes:
Proposed by Councillor M. Baker

Seconded by Councillor J. Lundy

“In keeping with the will of the Irish people as emphatically expressed in the referendum of November, 1983 Sligo County Council opposes any form of legislation of abortion in any circumstances.”

At the outset Councillor Bree proposed an amendment to this motion and following a brief discussion it was;

Proposed by Councillor D. Bree

Seconded by Councillor J. Leonard

AND AGREED

“That the following words be added to Councillor Baker and Lundy’s motion: ‘other that in accordance with Article 40.3.3 of the constitution.’ The amended motion would then read: ‘In keeping with the will of the Irish people as emphatically expressed in the referendum of November, 1983 Sligo County Council opposes any form of legislation of abortion in any circumstances other that in accordance with Article 40.3.3 of the constitution.’
So Sligo is saying "we oppose any unconstitutional legislation" and the Breeless councils are saying "we oppose any constitutional legislation".

Donegal CC minutes from July [edit: emphasis added]:
IN KEEPING WITH THE WILL OF THE IRISH PEOPLE AS EMPHATICALLY EXPRESSED IN THE REFERENDUM OF 1983, DONEGAL COUNTY COUNCIL OPPOSES ANY FORM OF LEGALISATION OF ABORTION IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
The following motion was submitted by Clr. Donaghey:-
“In keeping with the will of the Irish people as emphatically expressed in the referendum of 1983, Donegal County Council opposes any form of legalisation of abortion in any circumstances”.
Clr. Donaghey called on the Council to oppose any form of the legalisation of abortion. A presentation entitled “Protecting Mother and Baby was circulated to Members for their information.
Clr. Campbell called for the motion to be amended and thus proposed, seconded by Clr. Mc Garvey that “In keeping with the will of the Irish people as emphatically expressed in the
referenda of 1983, 1992 and 2002, Donegal County Council opposes any form of legalisation of abortion on demand and awaits the expert group report on the 2010 ECHR ruling”.
Clr. Donaghey called for a recorded vote.
Mr. Liam Ward, Meetings Administrator informed the meeting that a vote would be taken firstly in relation to the amendment and proceeded to read the wording as outlined above into the record.
A recorded vote taken by the Meetings Administrator resulted in 7 voting for the amendment with 17 voting against.
Those voting in favour included:-
Clrs Boyle, Campbell, Gallagher, Harvey, Mc Garvey, Murray and Quinn. (7)
Those voting against included:-
Clrs Alcorn, Blaney, Brogan, Canning, Crawford, M. Doherty, P. Doherty, R. Donaghey, Farren, Harley, Larkin, Mc Brearty, M. Mc Bride, Mc Eniff, Mc Gowan, O’ Domhnaill, and Slowey. (17)
Clr. Campbell advised that he wished to comment on the loss of the amendment in accordance with Standing Order No. 54. His motion, he confirmed, had specifically acknowledged the will of the Irish people as provided for in the referenda of 1983, 1992 and 2002, a feature which would be lost in the motion now before the Council.
A recorded vote on the motion was then taken by the Meeting’s Administrator. This resulted in 17 voting for the motion with 1 voting against and 6 abstentions.
Those voting in favour included:-
Clrs Alcorn, Blaney, Brogan, Canning, Crawford, M. Doherty, P. Doherty, R. Donaghey, Farren, Harley, Larkin, Mc Brearty, M. Mc Bride, Mc Eniff, Mc Gowan, O’ Domhnaill, and Slowey. (17)
Those voting against included:-
Clr. Campbell
Clrs Boyle, Gallagher, Harvey, Mc Garvey, Murray, and Quinn abstained.
The Mayor declared the motion carried and it was agreed to circulate a copy to all Local Authorities for consideration.
 
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Socratus O' Pericles

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Oct 12, 2009
Messages
33,555
FFs duplicity on this issue knows no bounds.

When Clare Daly earlier this year proposed in a Private Members Bill a measured, perfectly reasonable and appropriate approach to the abortion issue v the Law as it stands in Ireland today FF ABSTAINED in the vote.


This in my view was because although they are “opposed to abortion” whatever that may mean, they saw political advantage in riding the other pony and if perhaps there had been a split between the Government Parties on the night of the vote they might have been able to engineer passage of the Bill thereby giving the Government a considerable black eye.

FF are the same old scum they always were and let’s never forget it.

Also we have now seen the others for what they are i.e. equally as bad –lets all vote AB FF FG LAB the next time.
 

Keith-M

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www.allkindsofeverything.ie
Can someone please do (even a basic) fact-check before putting these kind of nonsense threads on p.ie? FF does not have a majority on the Sligo or the Leitrim council. In fact, quite the opposite, it is FG who are the biggest party on both councils. Therefore for these motions to pass, FF most have gotten support from other parties and in all probability from FG people.

This thread should be zooed as it manages to be most inaccurate and offensive as Skyrocket has pointed out above.
 
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M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

I think I'm going to preface every debate with abortion. Seems like a great subject to stir the sedate hornet's nest of Irish politics.
 

Clanrickard

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Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,951
While Billy Kelleher is playing the statesman on abortion in the Dáil (and being thanked by Gilbore), FF's local councillors have been playing another game.

"Sligo County Council has passed a motion on abortion legislation.
It requested that 'in keeping with the will of the Irish people - as expressed in the referendum of November 1983 - that Sligo County Council opposes any form of legislation of abortion in any circumstances other than in accordance with Article 40.3.3 of the constitution.'
What's wrong with that? Are you suggesting legislation be passed that conflicts with the constitution?
 

odlum

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May 29, 2007
Messages
4,159
Fianna Fáil should try and strike a balance between those who want abortion and those who don't in the upcoming debate. I think our electoral prospects would be enhanced by trying to appeal to all sides as FF has successfully (unlike other party's) done in the past. We need to fudge the issue for electoral advantage.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
33,555
Fianna Fáil do not have a party line on abortion. To suggest otherwise is to play vindictive party political games with the issue. The party is split on the matter, hence no one coherent policy has been formed. Ógra has called for (and the motion was most recently endorse last November) to legislate for the X-case. Some of our politicians are for that, some are against it. There is no policy agreed by the members.
Bol**cks- this is what I call aparty line:

Dr Joseph McCarroll
Chairperson
Pro Life Campaign
104 Lower Baggot Street
Dublin 2

17th February 2011

Dear Dr McCarroll,
Thank you for your letter dated 11th February 2011. I note that you are
reviewing the views of the different political parties on abortion and the
protection of embryos on Tuesday next.




I set out my response our position as below:





Fianna Fáil’s position on abortion remains unchanged and will maintain
Ireland’s ban on abortion.

Fianna Fáil will uphold the right of the Irish people, and the Irish people
alone, to decide on Ireland’s abortion laws. We will oppose moves to
legalise abortion in Ireland.
Our track record in this regard is clear.
Fianna Fáil Taoisigh negotiated legally binding guarantees, which were
attached to the Treaties of Maastrict and Lisbon, ensuring that nothing in
those Treaties, or in the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, affects the
operation in Ireland of Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution.

The Government mounted a robust defence of Ireland’s abortion laws before
the European Court of Human Rights in A, B and C vs. Ireland. The Court
found that the Irish Constitution is not incompatible with the ECHR, and
that States enjoy a margin of appreciation regarding protecting the right
to life of the unborn, thereby affirming the Government’s view that it is
the Irish people who have the right to decide on abortion.

Fianna Fáil will ensure that any new regime put in place in respect for
assisted human reproduction fully respects the right to life of the unborn.

In this context, Fianna Fáil in Government has insisted that all EU
research funding programmes respect Ireland’s national position in relation
to embryo research through the ethical subsidiarity clause.

We have ensured that no embryo research in Ireland has been or can be
funded by the EU.
In the negotiations on the 7th EU Framework Research
Programme, Ireland played an influential part in crafting a compromise
whereby the Commission undertook not to submit proposals for research
activities that destroy human embryos. I can also confirm that we are
opposed to research on embryos and will not support moves to legalise this
in Ireland.

Yours sincerely,
Micheál Martin TD
Leader Fianna Fáil

Thats a position....... so go and tell your lies elsewhere.
 
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stopdoingstuff

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Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
22,876
Everyone plays politics with abortion. That's because it is a political issue.
 

lying eyes

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Apr 27, 2009
Messages
4,417
Micky Martin and his buddies will have all the answers now, for twenty years they had nothing to offer.
 

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