FG and Cafe bar licences



NationStates

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cmon! making MORE outlets to get alcohol!!! c'mon like! go to the bathroom, get some cold water and wet yourself!!

just allow the CURRENT restaurants serve beer and who needs these cafes like? i dont go for a drink on my break and dont know many who do!

I DONT THINK YOUR THE REAL MATT BRUTON AT ALL AT ALL! :twisted:
 

rockofcashel

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*listen carefully Matt*

somewhere in the distance, you'll hear the sound of a penny dropping.
 

smiffy

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theREALmattbruton said:
can somebody please tell me why FG opposed the cafe bar licences?
I really would like to know If there is a genuine reason, because if there isnt then we are just like FF and pandering to the vinters.
Not necessarily. It could also be because you thought the government were going to introduce them, therefore they had to be opposed. Feel free to support them now, if you like.

The reason given by Damien English on the television yesterday seemed to be along the lines of 'it won't solve binge drinking'. The biggest mistake McDowell made in bringing these forward was to suggest that it would actually impact on drink culture. He would have been a lot better off if he had stuck with the greater competition/greater diversity of venues for drinking argument.
 
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I was listening to the radio and it was said that there is no evidence whatsoever that the current system of restricting licences is decreasing alcohol consumption at all. ironically the best way to decrease consumption would be to make it more available.

and think intuitively... when you tell somebody that you cant have something then they want it more.
 

Jack_Flash

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“Minister McDowell’s café bars proposals will increase the number of outlets selling alcohol, and in the process will make the national alcohol problem even worse. Instead of extinguishing superpub licences and replacing them with continental-style bars, the Minister wants to set up a parallel network of drink outlets on top of the current network of pubs"

The words of Jim O'Keeffe
 

smiffy

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Jack_Flash said:
“Minister McDowell’s café bars proposals will increase the number of outlets selling alcohol, and in the process will make the national alcohol problem even worse. Instead of extinguishing superpub licences and replacing them with continental-style bars, the Minister wants to set up a parallel network of drink outlets on top of the current network of pubs"

The words of Jim O'Keeffe
That's pretty stupid of him (O'Keeffe). How would it 'make the national alcohol problem even worse'? Perhaps by making alcohol in pubs somewhat cheaper, but I thought FG were all keen to tackle 'Rip-Off Ireland'. Surely that wasn't just more mindless sloganeering and posturing, was it?
 

rockofcashel

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so as part of FG's street safe campaign, would FG advocate the closing down of outlets that sell alcohol, such as pubs, off-licenses, supermarkets etc.

I'm not trying to be facetious here, I personally do advocate the removal off licenses from many outlets.

I fail to understand why a garage can sell bottles of wine from 8:30 in the morning, and personally think it is disgraceful.
 

NationStates

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quote="Jack_Flash"]“Minister McDowell’s café bars proposals will increase the number of outlets selling alcohol, and in the process will make the national alcohol problem even worse. Instead of extinguishing superpub licences and replacing them with continental-style bars, the Minister wants to set up a parallel network of drink outlets on top of the current network of pubs"

The words of Jim O'Keeffe[/quote]



smiffy says....That's pretty stupid of him (O'Keeffe). How would it 'make the national alcohol problem even worse'? Perhaps by making alcohol in pubs somewhat cheaper, but I thought FG were all keen to tackle 'Rip-Off Ireland'. Surely that wasn't just more mindless sloganeering and posturing, was it?



your funny, your a funny guy!!!

seeing as these bars would be in paralel to the super pubs etc it just means more alcohol, more available alcohol, more cheap available alcohol....you dont see the problem?????

i suggested the REAL matt get some cold water...i say to you madame, get a bath tub of cold water.... :twisted:
 
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NationStates said:
seeing as these bars would be in paralel to the super pubs etc it just means more alcohol, more available alcohol, more cheap available alcohol....you dont see the problem?????

i suggested the REAL matt get some cold water...i say to you madame, get a bath tub of cold water.... :twisted:
you listened to nothing that i said. please stop posting until you carefully read other people's posts.
 

NationStates

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theREALmattbruton said:
can somebody please tell me why FG opposed the cafe bar licences?
I really would like to know If there is a genuine reason, because if there isnt then we are just like FF and pandering to the vinters.
firstly, hard to 'listen' to a webpage

where did you loose me then???

i 'read' it....stick to my points the not so real matt
 

Parnell

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rockofcashel said:
so as part of FG's street safe campaign, would FG advocate the closing down of outlets that sell alcohol, such as pubs, off-licenses, supermarkets etc.

I'm not trying to be facetious here, I personally do advocate the removal off licenses from many outlets.

I fail to understand why a garage can sell bottles of wine from 8:30 in the morning, and personally think it is disgraceful.
I/m going to pick up the topic from this point because the slanging match on the posts after it were getting a bit silly.

I don't think what's outlined on safestreets has been developed fully, but there are some good threads there that can be developed on.

Before getting on to them I actually think that Mc Dowells proposal re restaurants is a sensible one, albeit one coigned out of political expediency and an instinct for survival.

Alcopops Ban

Ok it's a bit populist, but the stuff is rocket fuel, and seems to turn nuns into slappers, and monks into psychopaths. Banning the sale of them makes sense to me.

Under Age Fines

Probably won't eradicate sales to under-age drinkers, but if the fine is sufficiently high it may make pub and off licence retailers think a little bit harder about selling to under age drinkers.

Hang Out Spots

I think this is a great proposal and the type of Cafe we should be going for. A focal point for teenagers to go to and have a coffe with their friends, and interact in an environment that is conducive to conversation, etc. sounds like a good thing to me. If it's an area with pool tables, internet acces, and such like even better. who knows they might even log on to politics.ie!

Not on safestreets.ie but drink related issues which could be incorporated are

Restaurants

This is the type of environment where younger people might learn how to drink properly (I mean moderately, and in a social environment) and get some decent example from their parents. They'd also become aware of the impact of the laws on drink driving when they see how one of the party has to lay off the booze when they're the designated driver.

Points of Sale

I think the points of sale where you can buy alcohol need to be more regulated. Pubs and Restaurants are fine. When it comes to supermarkets I don't think it should all be out on open shelving as it is at the moment. There should be an off-licence within the supermarket, and it should only be allowed to sell alcohol within the normal licensing hours. I think this is going to become increasingly important as the larger retail chains start a serious move towards self service checkouts. Then there will be no one to stop an underage purchaser as things stand.

Finally, youre right on the garage shops. It's ridiculous that they're allowed to sell booze around the clock.
 

Jack_Flash

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smiffy said:
Jack_Flash said:
“Minister McDowell’s café bars proposals will increase the number of outlets selling alcohol, and in the process will make the national alcohol problem even worse. Instead of extinguishing superpub licences and replacing them with continental-style bars, the Minister wants to set up a parallel network of drink outlets on top of the current network of pubs"

The words of Jim O'Keeffe
That's pretty stupid of him (O'Keeffe). How would it 'make the national alcohol problem even worse'? Perhaps by making alcohol in pubs somewhat cheaper, but I thought FG were all keen to tackle 'Rip-Off Ireland'. Surely that wasn't just more mindless sloganeering and posturing, was it?
Providing more places to drink is likely to worsen the alcohol problem in this country given the nature of the Irish people. Just because a place is a continental-style cafe bar it doesn't mean that the Irish are going to drink like our counterparts on the continent!
 

smiffy

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Jack_Flash said:
Providing more places to drink is likely to worsen the alcohol problem in this country given the nature of the Irish people. Just because a place is a continental-style cafe bar it doesn't mean that the Irish are going to drink like our counterparts on the continent!
Beggorah, sure aren't we divils?

Not all Irish people want to get twisted every time they go out. Not all Irish people like the pubs in Dublin city centre. And not all Irish people would use cafe bars to get absolutely arseholed.

I don't believe that introducing these licenses would have had any positive impact on alcohol problems in this country. However, to say that it would make the situation worse is premised on the view that there is a cohort of Irish people who would get go out and drunk at present, but are hampered by the difficulty in accessing drink. Which I don't think is true, but feel free to argue otherwise.
 

Terry Mac

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Can someone fill me in on the current state of play regarding restaurants. OK, they can get a license to serve wine, but not beer etc, that much is given. But how much is this license? How do you qualify for it? Will there be anything to stop people getting one of these licenses and setting up a pub disguised as a restaurant?

On another note, hasn't Michael McDowell behaved like a spoilt child over this one. Going round saying that because the FF TDs stirred up a fuss, he's gone even more radical. If I was 1 of them FF TDs, id be putting the boot in now.
 

RBinge

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I thought that the FG motion opposing cafe bars was purely to smoke out the Fianna Failers who were opposed to the measure. Shock horror, FG learning how to do cute politics :lol:
 

Collinsite

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Cafe bars were never the solution to anything.Yes I favour greater competition and the introduction of new cafe bars would be a good test of the publican trade,but we live in a country that probably already has more outlets for alcohol sale per capita than anywhere else on earth!Every town and village and city in Ireland has more than enough outlets so why bring in more?

In any case it would be wrong to liberalise further the availability of alcohol.Imagine the novelty of drinking in a cafe bar?It produces an incentive to drink.It wuld also be more difficult to curb underage drinking in them.Do we want people having a beer or two with their breakfasts now in this country?I'm glad that FG opposed this
 

geraghd

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I fail to understand why a garage can sell bottles of wine from 8:30 in the morning, and personally think it is disgraceful.
Disgraceful. Preventing 'normal' people from buying a particular bottle of wine at a more convenient time (which may very well be at 8.30 in the morning) than having to do with another inferior or less palatable alcoholic substitute due to restrictive time of sales is disgracful. I should be allowed buy alcohol at any time that I prefer.

[Cafe bars] produces an incentive to drink.It wuld also be more difficult to curb underage drinking in them.
How would it be more difficult to curb underage drinking? Its a simple matter of ensuring drink isnt sold. The difficulty in ensuring underage drinking doesnt occur would be more difficult in superpubs rather than smaller outlets such as cafebars where owners/managers have more control.
The incentive to drink is already there and is in fact exacerbated by the fact that drinking is restricted to pubs (larger ones in particular). Drinking is not the problem but drinking too much is. Moderation is the key and will be significantly promoted by the establishment of cafe bars and such small outlets where a drink or two is taken for responsible enjoyment rather than a mad big social night in a pub where the amount of fun is considered directly proportional to amount of drink taken. A change of culture is needed not more restriction and to borrow a hard worn phrase 'nanny-statism'. I am deeply saddened by FG opposition to cafe bars and the likes of its new proposals to ban alcopops.

On another note, hasn't Michael McDowell behaved like a spoilt child over this one. Going round saying that because the FF TDs stirred up a fuss, he's gone even more radical. If I was 1 of them FF TDs, id be putting the boot in now.
Fair play to McDowell I say. The FF backbenchers are the ones acting like spoilt children and it is deeply suspect when they cause a fuss over this when they didnt raise an eyebrow over other arguably more important govt policies and decisions such as the 'savage 16' welfare cutbacks. To borrow another phrase: "FF- The Publican Party"

Alcopops Ban

Ok it's a bit populist, but the stuff is rocket fuel, and seems to turn nuns into slappers, and monks into psychopaths. Banning the sale of them makes sense to me.
I never turned into a slapper or psychopath when I drank them.
 

smiffy

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Collinsite said:
Cafe bars were never the solution to anything.Yes I favour greater competition and the introduction of new cafe bars would be a good test of the publican trade,but we live in a country that probably already has more outlets for alcohol sale per capita than anywhere else on earth!Every town and village and city in Ireland has more than enough outlets so why bring in more?
What about people who would prefer to have a drink in a cafe bar than in the pubs 'we' currently have?

Oh, and how do you square your apparent favouring of greater competition with your opposition to introducing more outlets for alcohol sale?
 


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