FG & Labour must rule out coalition.

caulfield-the-yank

Active member
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
264
Agree with the OP!

The criticisms of the the OP that come from the FG side all assume that FG will do no better than 63 to 71 seats.

As things now stand, that looks to be the case.

But that is precisely why something must be done to change the way "things now stand."

The OP proposes one such way -- and, frankly, I cannot think of any other.

What would happen after this particular election, admittedly I do not know. I only know that it would put down a marker for all future elections.
 


hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
49,782
There could be soon. The extreme right has their windbag in Lucinda Creighton, we might get ours soon enough if Pat Nulty can pull enough leftie votes from Joe Higgins and young votes from Varadkar.
Sorry, but what exactly is "extreme right wing" about Creighton? Examples, comments, statements, quotes perchance?
 

dotski_w_

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
2,474
Website
irishpollingreport.wordpress.com
If the future of planet earth depended on it, that 25% would not move from FF. That 25% is the hardcore FF vote that will vote for FF no matter what. A lot of them are the sort of people so ideologically and fanatically Fianna Fáil that they can't even bring themselves to transfer outside Fianna Fáil - they only vote 1, 2, 3 whatever for the FF candidates and then stop. And you think the fundamentalist FFers who would die for their beloved party and think de Valera was god would shift to vote for FG or Labour! :eek:.
not long ago that figure was considered 40%, then 30%. LEs last year they got 25.4%. and in the Euros?

24.1%. So they've already gone lower than that. Some of that 24.1% was for individual candidates with a personal vote (Brian Crowley, for example) and would have voted someone else in the LEs, and so the percentage of those who would vote FF no matter what is lower still.

Of course, it may rise again. Or may fall. But it's a moving feast, not something set in stone.
 

djdelany

New member
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
2
The real problem is how FG and Labour define themselves which, especially of late, has been as Not FF. This is funny as FF primarily define themselves as the party that does what it takes to gain power, "the natural party of government" - so anyone seeking to be anti-FF is either just committed to opposition for its own sake (SF?) or else comes across as just seeking to seize power temporarily without any real ideology to exercise when they stumble into that happy situation. FG and Labour essentially belong on opposite sides of any sane political divide and this should be made more acute by the current economic meltdown.

For any program for government between them to get passed their parties they must abandon what little clear ideology they each have and leave only a feeble agenda of tinkering at fringe issues (expect a lot of promises of progressive social change through legislation in the titanic deckchairs mode) and not tackling the real issue (the impending bankruptcy of the state for those who haven't been paying attention).
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
49,782
The real problem is how FG and Labour define themselves which, especially of late, has been as Not FF. This is funny as FF primarily define themselves as the party that does what it takes to gain power, "the natural party of government" - so anyone seeking to be anti-FF is either just committed to opposition for its own sake (SF?) or else comes across as just seeking to seize power temporarily without any real ideology to exercise when they stumble into that happy situation. FG and Labour essentially belong on opposite sides of any sane political divide and this should be made more acute by the current economic meltdown.

For any program for government between them to get passed their parties they must abandon what little clear ideology they each have and leave only a feeble agenda of tinkering at fringe issues (expect a lot of promises of progressive social change through legislation in the titanic deckchairs mode) and not tackling the real issue (the impending bankruptcy of the state for those who haven't been paying attention).
Spot the closet FFer. Yawn.
 

Baron von Biffo

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
16,924
The real problem is how FG and Labour define themselves which, especially of late, has been as Not FF.
Alas you are correct. We have ditched even the pretence that policy is important and jumped enthusiastically onto the personality wagon.

For any program for government between them to get passed their parties they must abandon what little clear ideology they each have and leave only a feeble agenda of tinkering at fringe issues (expect a lot of promises of progressive social change through legislation in the titanic deckchairs mode) and not tackling the real issue (the impending bankruptcy of the state for those who haven't been paying attention).
FG/Lab coalitions traditionally meant FG government with Lab providing the lobby fodder. The accidental Rainbow Government saw a reversal of that. If we have FG/Lab after the GE it will likely follow the latter model with a strong Lab dominating the divided FG and its weak leader.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
49,782
Alas you are correct. We have ditched even the pretence that policy is important and jumped enthusiastically onto the personality wagon
No its nothing to do with personality. But your obsessive focus on policy is an attempt to brush aside the issue of COMPETENCE. An incoming government, while it may have policy priorities, will also have to respond to and deal with all sorts of unexpected circumstances. And that is where FF have failed spectacularly, thus displaying their incompetence. Other parties are fully entitled to say they're not gonna form any coalition with parties who are that incompetent.

FG/Lab coalitions traditionally meant FG government with Lab providing the lobby fodder.
No they didn't.

The accidental Rainbow Government saw a reversal of that. If we have FG/Lab after the GE it will likely follow the latter model with a strong Lab dominating the divided FG and its weak leader.
Again, you're mixing up reality with what you want to be reality. You really need to grow out of that.
 

imokyrok

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
4,497
I will be demanding that who ever I vote for first rules out coalition with Fianna Fáil. After that I'll take whatever combination is necessary to run the country.
 

blackpitts

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
941
It's pretty clear that 2 out of FF, FG and Lab will form the next government. The numbers will mean that SF, Greens, Independents etc. won't be relevant.

I don't see FG/FF happening, though I could be wrong. That leaves FG/Lab or FF/Lab.

I think FG/Lab is about 70% likely. If Lab do very well and FF do very badly I think Lab could be seduced into coalition with FF if they get a Lab Taoiseach. Personally I think they'd be crazy to play with fire like this, but the allure of power can be irresistible.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
49,782
If Lab do very well and FF do very badly I think Lab could be seduced into coalition with FF if they get a Lab Taoiseach. Personally I think they'd be crazy to play with fire like this, but the allure of power can be irresistible.
Labour have ruled that option out - and FF wouldn't do it anyway.
 

Baron von Biffo

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
16,924
It's pretty clear that 2 out of FF, FG and Lab will form the next government. The numbers will mean that SF, Greens, Independents etc. won't be relevant.

I don't see FG/FF happening, though I could be wrong. That leaves FG/Lab or FF/Lab.

I think FG/Lab is about 70% likely. If Lab do very well and FF do very badly I think Lab could be seduced into coalition with FF if they get a Lab Taoiseach. Personally I think they'd be crazy to play with fire like this, but the allure of power can be irresistible.
There is an possibility that you haven't listed - FG minority government with Lab support.

It's an option that's not without a certain attraction for Lab. Allowing the inexperienced and divided FG to govern under a leader that half of them haven't confidence in while retaining the power to pull the plug at an opportune moment could be very attractive.

A few months of that would certainly end the childish personality politics of ABFF and maybe the 2013 GE would b about policy.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
49,782
There is an possibility that you haven't listed - FG minority government with Lab support.

It's an option that's not without a certain attraction for Lab. Allowing the inexperienced and divided FG to govern under a leader that half of them haven't confidence in while retaining the power to pull the plug at an opportune moment could be very attractive.
No it isn't attractive - not for Labour, and not for the electorate. Labour would be getting the blame for anything remotely unpopular they supported, while having none of the benefits that come from sitting around the cabinet table, and actually having an input into policy. Meanwhile the uncertainty this would create would send our borrowing costs even higher - as markets hate uncertainty, and generally run a mile from it. In those circumstances, FG would go to the country, and Labour would lose seats to both FF and FG, as they'd be seen as not being serious about wanting to be in government. Once again your obsession with wanting any government other than a solid FG/Labour coalition post-election is leading you to suggest Labour compose increasingly bizarre political suicide notes.

A few months of that would certainly end the childish personality politics of ABFF and maybe the 2013 GE would b about policy.
Again, why do you keep ignoring the issue of competence? The people, and the political parties, are quite entitled to turf out parties who they see as incompetent. FF have made a mess of this country, they're seen as incompetent, and thus the people and the other parties will turf them out.

Also, its actually hilarious to hear you constantly bemoaning "personality politics", given your obsession with Enda Kenny.
 

deiseguy

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
1,342
Based on the TV3 poll I just reiterating the point Labour and FG must rule out coalition and start to push in every way they can for a general election. I think I heard Gilmore saying during the week that Lab were going to stand 65 candidates in the GE doesn't this stink of a lack of ambition.
 

Passionateheart

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
166
Chances are it will be back to the future ie 82-87 all over again, with nothing achieved, 2 ideologically incompatible parties, Fools Gold and the fake Socialists but above all, they will have to put up with an incredible mess left for them to clean!
 

johntrenchard

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
991
Based on the TV3 poll I just reiterating the point Labour and FG must rule out coalition and start to push in every way they can for a general election. I think I heard Gilmore saying during the week that Lab were going to stand 65 candidates in the GE doesn't this stink of a lack of ambition.
actually thats gone up.. gilmore is now talking about standing even more candidates.


to be honest i think Lab are shocked with the popularity of Gilmore - especially when you get headlines like this:

Gilmore still favourite to lead country - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top