FG TDs sold out Membership yet again!

hiding behind a poster

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The vast majority of the membership favoured Coveney. The parliamentary members have messed up, big time.
Are you saying that because the membership favour Coveney, the PP must follow suit, regardless of their own views?
 


TheWolf

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The vast majority of the membership favoured Coveney. The parliamentary members have messed up, big time.
FG elect their leader in the way the party see fit, and that's ok by me.

SF elect their leader in the way they see fit, yet every other party, including labour who elected Howlin, unopposed, deem it appropriate to attack how SF do their business.

Go figure.
 

The Preacher

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Ff repeatedly declared that they would continue to support the government regardless of who became leader, so everyone knew that they were voting for the next taoiseach. Try to keep honest.
FF are pathological liars and nothing that comes out of any FFers mouth can be believed. This is a party who were prepared to suspend the Constitution in order to cling to power and deny the people of three constituencies their democratic right to vote, remember? They're biding their time until they get a chance to bankrupt the country again. Which hopefully won't be happening any time soon. Whatever their faults, to my mind FG have now proved yet again that they have the best interests of the country at heart. I'm delighted with Leo's election and will be giving FG my Number 1 vote, for the first time ever, at the next GE.
 

FunkyBoogaloo

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FF are pathological liars and nothing that comes out of any FFers mouth can be believed. This is a party who were prepared to suspend the Constitution in order to cling to power and deny the people of three constituencies their democratic right to vote, remember? They're biding their time until they get a chance to bankrupt the country again. Which hopefully won't be happening any time soon. Whatever their faults, to my mind FG have now proved yet again that they have the best interests of the country at heart. I'm delighted with Leo's election and will be giving FG my Number 1 vote, for the first time ever, at the next GE.
Idiot.
 

The Preacher

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No they didn't. They voted for him because they judged that FG would do better in elections under him, and hence they'd be more likely to hold their seats and be in government.



If the members know that, then the TDs do too, and more. It's ridiculous to suggest that TDs are out of touch, all Irish public reps from all parties are more exposed to public opinion that public reps just about anywhere else. It's the nature of our system.



Says who?



How do you know?



You cannot possibly claim that. Members voted the way they did for all sorts of reasons, you can't assume that all those who voted a particular way did so for the same reason. Lots of Cork members probably voted for Coveney because he was from Cork, just like some members undoubtedly didn't want a gay leader, or a mixed race leader. And some because Varadkar didn't pander to them or plamas them at a meeting or an Ard Fheis or something (and obviously many of those reasons can cut either way). And I've certainly heard of members who voted for Coveney because they liked both but knew Leo would win, and didn't want Simon humiliated. At the end of the day you simply can't assume that everyone of an electorate with widely differing backgrounds, ages, locations etc who voted one way in a binary contest, did so for the same reason.



To me, all that shows is that in nearly 20 years as a TD, Coveney had never really cut through to the public in terms of a clear definition of who he is and what he's about, whereas people already had a fairly good perception of Varadkar. Coveney's numbers going up is a bit like what happened with the likes of Mitt Romney and Nick Clegg when they first got some proper national exposure. Also, it was very noticeable during the campaign that the other parties, and Fianna Fail in particular, were clearly rooting for Coveney to win, and saying so in various ways - some subtle, others less so. So it's not in the least surprising to find their supporters following the same line.



Well we'll have to wait and see. But bear in mind that picking the members' choice as leader might give everyone a warm feeling of togetherness, but it can also give you the likes of Iain Duncan Smith, Jeremy Corbyn and any number of fruitloop Tea Party candidates, chosen by people whose livelihoods don't depend on making the right choice.
Excellent post, well said. Couldn't agree more about the perception of Coveney vs Varadkar. I'm very happy with Leo winning. One of the things that annoyed me during the contest was all the comments about Coveney being "a safe pair of hands" versus Leo's supposedly loose cannon tendencies. To me, "safe pair of hands" means the same tedious, parish pump, Enda style backward politics that we need to get rid of once and for all. Whatever faults Leo might have, we badly need someone with strong opinions who's not afraid to be a bit controversial and divide opinion. I'm sick of schoolteachers and small time parish pump merchants running the country.
 

greengoose2

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Excellent post, well said. Couldn't agree more about the perception of Coveney vs Varadkar. I'm very happy with Leo winning. One of the things that annoyed me during the contest was all the comments about Coveney being "a safe pair of hands" versus Leo's supposedly loose cannon tendencies. To me, "safe pair of hands" means the same tedious, parish pump, Enda style backward politics that we need to get rid of once and for all. Whatever faults Leo might have, we badly need someone with strong opinions who's not afraid to be a bit controversial and divide opinion. I'm sick of schoolteachers and small time parish pump merchants running the country.
The doctors were not covering themselves in glory. Especially in the heath area...
 

ger12

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FG elect their leader in the way the party see fit, and that's ok by me.

SF elect their leader in the way they see fit, yet every other party, including labour who elected Howlin, unopposed, deem it appropriate to attack how SF do their business.

Go figure.
Labour lost any moral authority in this regard when they crowned Howlin. FG just lost it when they pretended the members had a say.
 

Brera

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Excellent post, well said. Couldn't agree more about the perception of Coveney vs Varadkar. I'm very happy with Leo winning. One of the things that annoyed me during the contest was all the comments about Coveney being "a safe pair of hands" versus Leo's supposedly loose cannon tendencies. To me, "safe pair of hands" means the same tedious, parish pump, Enda style backward politics that we need to get rid of once and for all. Whatever faults Leo might have, we badly need someone with strong opinions who's not afraid to be a bit controversial and divide opinion. I'm sick of schoolteachers and small time parish pump merchants running the country.
But Varadkar has been up the the parish pump politics game for years. His has been campaigning for the last number of years using the Kenny - Hogan play book.

For me the difference between the two of them was best shown at the hustings in Cork. Leo wants to change our debt targets so we can borrow for infrastructure spending, with a list thats based on a shopping list from TDs etc. Coveney was far more reluctant to increase our debt, instead he wanted to come up with a long term plan first and then look at how to fund it.

To me Varadkar is Kenny mark 2 just more media savy.
 

Round tower

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FG elect their leader in the way the party see fit, and that's ok by me.

SF elect their leader in the way they see fit
, yet every other party, including labour who elected Howlin, unopposed, deem it appropriate to attack how SF do their business.

Go figure.
How will SF elect their new leader if 2 or more goes for the leadership of SF, agree different parties ave their own policy on how they elect their party leaders.
I stated before if FG members or any other party members are not happy how their paty elect their leader, bring a motion to their party Ard Fheis to change the way
 

TheWolf

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How will SF elect their new leader if 2 or more goes for the leadership of SF, agree different parties ave their own policy on how they elect their party leaders.
I stated before if FG members or any other party members are not happy how their paty elect their leader, bring a motion to their party Ard Fheis to change the way
Why don't you e-mail SF and ask them?
 

The Preacher

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To quote one of our truly great taoisigh "a temporary little arrangement".
You mean the corrupt Charvet shirt shyster who did such a great job of transforming FF into the corrupt, morally bankrupt cabal of gangsters, buffoons and shysters it is today.
 

The Preacher

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But Varadkar has been up the the parish pump politics game for years. His has been campaigning for the last number of years using the Kenny - Hogan play book.

For me the difference between the two of them was best shown at the hustings in Cork. Leo wants to change our debt targets so we can borrow for infrastructure spending, with a list thats based on a shopping list from TDs etc. Coveney was far more reluctant to increase our debt, instead he wanted to come up with a long term plan first and then look at how to fund it.

To me Varadkar is Kenny mark 2 just more media savy.
Interesting. I did not know that and I'd commend Coveney for it.
 


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