Fianna Fail's Niall Collins in outrageous anti-Semitic trope

Clanrickard

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A classic anti-Semitic conspiracy theory is that there is a powerful Jewish lobby scheming behind the scenes. it is classic antisemitism by any definition. Yet in the link below we have Fianna Fail's Niall Collins their foreign affairs spokesman and a leading proponent of Frances Blacks' BDS Bill repeating this nonsense. He said "“wouldn’t entirely blame the Trump administration when we’re apportioning blame to the United States, because right across corporate America and right across America at every level there’s a huge Jewish lobby who have helped create the problem we are now discussing”. What is Micahel Martin going to do about this blatant antisemitism? It would be a sacking offence in any respectable political party.


 


Dame_Enda

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Look the US and increasingly the West is full of ethnic lobbies. We know this because it includes Irish Americans, as well as yes the American Jews and the Cuban Americans. Let's call a spade a spade. Niall Collins is correct, though its very important to point out that the US Jewish lobby does not speak for all Jews. In fact growing numbers of them have formed liberal Zionist groups like J Street, and some non Zionist groups like Ifnotnow and Breaking the Silence to oppose Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.

When Eamon De Valera went to fundraise for the War of Independence in America, do you seriously think he had random Americans in mind? While he would have liked to influence them too, he went there particularly to court Irish American support, just as Netanyahu does with American Jews. Its not an anti semitic stereotype. Its what ethnic lobbies do.
 
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enuffisenuff

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and us Irish don't lobby at all in the US?

melania-patricks-day5.jpg
 

Clanrickard

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Look the US and increasingly the West is full of ethnic lobbies. We know this because it includes Irish Americans, as well as yes the American Jews and the Cuban Americans. Let's call a spade a spade. Niall Collins is correct, though its very important to point out that the US Jewish lobby does not speak for all Jews. In fact growing numbers of them have formed liberal Zionist groups like J Street, and some non Zionist groups like Ifnotnow and Breaking the Silence to oppose Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.

When Eamon De Valera went to fundraise for the War of Independence in America, do you seriously think he had random Americans in mind? While he would have liked to influence them too, he went there particularly to court Irish American support, just as Netanyahu does with American Jews. Its not an anti semitic stereotype. Its what ethnic lobbies do.
It is how he phrased it. Everyone lobbies but the notion of a Jewish lobby pulling the strings is classic anti-Semitism.
 

IvoShandor

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Are you trying to say there is no pro-Israeli lobby in the USA?
I notice how you phrased that. If he'd said "right across America at every level there’s a huge pro-Israeli lobby who have helped create the problem we are now discussing” that would have been different. He didn't. He said "Jewish".
 

Levellers

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I notice how you phrased that. If he'd said "right across America at every level there’s a huge pro-Israeli lobby who have helped create the problem we are now discussing” that would have been different. He didn't. He said "Jewish".
The Zionists inter mingle the term 'Israel' and 'Jewish' quite deliberately to falsely give the impression that criticism of Israel is itself antisemitic.
 

Apple in Eden

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A classic anti-Semitic conspiracy theory is that there is a powerful Jewish lobby scheming behind the scenes. it is classic antisemitism by any definition. Yet in the link below we have Fianna Fail's Niall Collins their foreign affairs spokesman and a leading proponent of Frances Blacks' BDS Bill repeating this nonsense. He said "“wouldn’t entirely blame the Trump administration when we’re apportioning blame to the United States, because right across corporate America and right across America at every level there’s a huge Jewish lobby who have helped create the problem we are now discussing”. What is Micahel Martin going to do about this blatant antisemitism? It would be a sacking offence in any respectable political party.


FF Is not, never really was and never will be a respectable party. The reasons are many and varied and not that interesting as we sit on the cusp of the 3rd decade of the 21st century. This comment in many respects is on the same level as DT's recent tweets condemning the Squad but will he be condemned to hell, like F@@K he will.
 

raetsel

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It is how he phrased it. Everyone lobbies but the notion of a Jewish lobby pulling the strings is classic anti-Semitism.
The problem here is his choice of wording, and the long history of vilification and persecution of Jewish people.
It would certainly have been safer and more accurate to use the term "pro-Israel lobby" because that particular grouping is not entirely Jewish anyway, though it is mostly, and because there are Jews who are committed to lobbying for a fair settlement deal for Palestinians.
If he is too stupid to understand those nuances, he probably shouldn't be a spokesman for anything at all, never mind Foreign Affairs.
That is not to deny that the pro-Israel lobby in the west is a largely malignant influence in the world at the moment, which is prolonging unrest in the Middle East.
 

IvoShandor

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The Zionists inter mingle the term 'Israel' and 'Jewish' quite deliberately to falsely give the impression that criticism of Israel is itself antisemitic.
The Zionists didn't mingle this. He said "Jewish".
 
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Clanrickard

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I notice how you phrased that. If he'd said "right across America at every level there’s a huge pro-Israeli lobby who have helped create the problem we are now discussing” that would have been different. He didn't. He said "Jewish".
Are you trying to say there is no pro-Israeli lobby in the USA?
See above.
 

Clanrickard

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The problem here is his choice of wording, and the long history of vilification and persecution of Jewish people.
It would certainly have been safer and more accurate to use the term "pro-Israel lobby" because that particular grouping is not entirely Jewish anyway, though it is mostly, and because there are Jews who are committed to lobbying for a fair settlement deal for Palestinians.
If he is too stupid to understand those nuances, he probably shouldn't be a spokesman for anything at all, never mind Foreign Affairs.
That is not to deny that the pro-Israel lobby in the west is a largely malignant influence in the world at the moment, which is prolonging unrest in the Middle East.
It isn't. Israel has offered peace many times and the offers were thrown back in their faces.
 

raetsel

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It isn't. Israel has offered peace many times and the offers were thrown back in their faces.
It is.
Israel has never offered peace on the basis of returning to the 1967 boundaries, which it is what it is required to do under UN resolution 242. You can offer all the peace offers you want standing on someone's neck, but if part of the deal is that you amputate his arms and keep them as a trophy then it is fair to say that objective people would understand why it would be rejected.
The problem is that while the USA and the west remain on Israel's side, Israel has no incentive to act in good faith. That's fine and this can drag on for another seven decades or more and it won't affect us in any catastrophic way, but the clock is ticking, and sometime it will. Sooner or later a group of Islamic fanatics will be able to access the knowledge, the technology and the raw materials to build a nuclear bomb. A bomb in New York and then another in London............................what will the west do then?
However the wider Israeli-Palestinian debates on these forums are pointless, because invariably all moderate opinion is drowned out by the clamour of the fanatics and extremists on both sides.
It is why I always regret getting involved. I'll leave it there.
 


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