Fianna Fail's Niall Collins in outrageous anti-Semitic trope

former wesleyan

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The Jewish lobby, more specifically the Israeli lobby, is disproportionately influential to its size.

Aren't simple facts allowed anymore?
Arafat to British diplomat 1979

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Clanrickard

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It is.
Israel has never offered peace on the basis of returning to the 1967 boundaries, which it is what it is required to do under UN resolution 242.
That is not what 242 says. Israel has offered 90% of the West bank and Gaza. That is all the Pallies are going to get.
The Jewish lobby, more specifically the Israeli lobby, is disproportionately influential to its size.

Aren't simple facts allowed anymore?
The pro-Israel lobby is made up of different groups. That is not the same as a Jewish lobby. They are simple facts.
 

Dame_Enda

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I would also point out that UNGA Resolution 181 could be argued to be still in force. This was the UN Partition Plan. It is true that it was rejected by the Arab League (Mahmoud Abbas recently said that was a mistake). But in the 1980's the UNGA asked the ICJ to advise on whether it still had legal validity and it said yes.

...
In 1988, the Palestine Liberation Organization published the Palestinian Declaration of Independence relying on Resolution 181, arguing that the resolution continues to provide international legitimacy for the right of the Palestinian people to sovereignty and national independence.[148] A number of scholars have written in support of this view.[149][150][151]

A General Assembly request for an advisory opinion, Resolution ES-10/14 (2004), specifically cited resolution 181(II) as a "relevant resolution", and asked the International Court of Justice (ICJ) what are the legal consequences of the relevant Security Council and General Assembly resolutions. Judge Abdul Koroma explained the majority opinion: "The Court has also held that the right of self-determination as an established and recognized right under international law applies to the territory and to the Palestinian people. Accordingly, the exercise of such right entitles the Palestinian people to a State of their own as originally envisaged in resolution 181 (II) and subsequently confirmed."[152] In response, Prof. Paul De Waart said that the Court put the legality of the 1922 League of Nations Palestine Mandate and the 1947 UN Plan of Partition beyond doubt once and for all.[153]


.....
 

wombat

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"“wouldn’t entirely blame the Trump administration when we’re apportioning blame to the United States, because right across corporate America and right across America at every level there’s a huge Jewish lobby who have helped create the problem we are now discussing”.
Its interesting to note the lack of outrage from RTE or IT about that statement. Are you sure he said Jewish rather than Israeli? if so its nothing but anti Jewish bigotry. I'm sure he's safe enough in Laois Offaly, there's not a big Jewish vote down there as Oliver Flanagan proved years ago.
 

Lonewolfe

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Arafat to British diplomat 1979

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Yes, that's true too. The Jewish lobby is not all powerful and sure thing, America acts in its own interests first and foremost in the M.E.

It just so happens that those interests are often alligned with Israel's and it also happens that a great many influential Americans are in fact Jewish with a pro Israel bent. The former support Israel as it's convenient for them to do so, the latter, for ideological reasons.

Nothing Collins said is remotely controversial or at all refutable nor is it in any way anti Semitic ... unless of course you want to see it that way.
 

Lonewolfe

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That is not what 242 says. Israel has offered 90% of the West bank and Gaza. That is all the Pallies are going to get.


The pro-Israel lobby is made up of different groups. That is not the same as a Jewish lobby. They are simple facts.
Of course. It's mostly Buddhists, Vegans and Scientologists in that Israeli lobby.


As was pointed out to you earlier, the Israeli lobby can use 'Jewish' and 'Israeli' interchangeably but no one else may.
 

wombat

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Just realised Collins is from Limerick, I had him mixed up with Cowen.
 

mangaire2

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Its interesting to note the lack of outrage from RTE or IT about that statement. Are you sure he said Jewish rather than Israeli? if so its nothing but anti Jewish bigotry. I'm sure he's safe enough in Laois Offaly, there's not a big Jewish vote down there as Oliver Flanagan proved years ago.
Collins is not from Offaly - he's from from Limerick. !!!
SEND HIM BACK.
he's not my favourite FF politician, but what he said about the Israeli lobby is reasonable.
 

kalipa

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That is not what 242 says. Israel has offered 90% of the West bank and Gaza. That is all the Pallies are going to get.


The pro-Israel lobby is made up of different groups. That is not the same as a Jewish lobby. They are simple facts.

Here's what 242 says

Resolution 242 (1967)
of 22 November 1967
The Security Council,

Expressing
its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,

Emphasizing further that all Member States in their acceptance of the Charter of the United Nations have undertaken a commitment to act in accordance with Article 2 of the Charter,

1. Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

2. Affirms further the necessity

(a) For guaranteeing freedom of navigation through international waterways in the area;

(b) For achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem;


(c) For guaranteeing the territorial inviolability and political independence of every State in the area, through measures including the establishment of demilitarized zones;

3. Requests the Secretary-General to designate a Special Representative to proceed to the Middle East to establish and maintain contacts with the States concerned in order to promote agreement and assist efforts to achieve a peaceful and accepted settlement in accordance with the provisions and principles in this resolution;

4. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Security Council on the progress of the efforts of the Special Representative as soon as possible.
Adopted unanimously at the 1382nd meeting.

Israel did none of the bolded above.


"The Arab Peace Initiative (Arabic: مبادرة السلام العربية‎), also known as the "Saudi Initiative", is a 10 sentence proposal for an end to the Arab–Israeli conflict that was endorsed by the Arab League in 2002 at the Beirut Summit and re-endorsed at the 2007 Arab League summit and at the 2017 Arab League summit.[1] The initiative calls for normalizing relations between the Arab region and Israel, in exchange for a full withdrawal by Israel from the occupied territories (including East Jerusalem) and a "just settlement" of the Palestinian refugee problem based on UN Resolution 194. "

Israel didn't even bother to reply yet " The Palestinian Authority led by Yasser Arafat immediately embraced the initiative.[7] His successor Mahmoud Abbas also supported the plan and officially asked U.S. President Barack Obama to adopt it as part of his Middle East policy "

Israel continued to appropriate land and property belonging to Palestinians with violence. They had no intentions of ever making peace
 

raetsel

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That is not what 242 says.
It is.
Operative Paragraph One "Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:
(i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
However, I'm putting this thread on my IGNORE list now. I don't wish to be tempted to be drawn in further because the only people who stay for the long term in these discussions are the hopelessly unreasonable hard-liners and fanatics on both sides, and clearly you are one of them.
Goodbye. :)
 

Eoin Coir

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A classic anti-Semitic conspiracy theory is that there is a powerful Jewish lobby scheming behind the scenes. it is classic antisemitism by any definition. Yet in the link below we have Fianna Fail's Niall Collins their foreign affairs spokesman and a leading proponent of Frances Blacks' BDS Bill repeating this nonsense. He said "“wouldn’t entirely blame the Trump administration when we’re apportioning blame to the United States, because right across corporate America and right across America at every level there’s a huge Jewish lobby who have helped create the problem we are now discussing”. What is Micahel Martin going to do about this blatant antisemitism? It would be a sacking offence in any respectable political party.


what will Eoghan Harris do about this,I think he advises Collins
 

peader odonnell

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Good grief, Palestinian terrorists have murdered , young, old , disabled, Olympic Athletes down the years.
 

kalipa

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Good grief, Palestinian terrorists have murdered , young, old , disabled, Olympic Athletes down the years.
What has Israel done down the years or do you just read from one side ?
 
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SummerBoy

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Was thinking of voting Fianna Fail but after this and Jim O'Callaghan TD on tv3 tonight saying Come Home Tina to ISIS bride Lisa Smith, no way FF>
 

mangaire2

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what will Eoghan Harris do about this,I think he advises Collins
is that correct, Tomas Mór ?
anyway, whether Harris advises him or not, Collins is every bit as blueshirt west brit as yourself.
but like the stopped clock, he can be right from time to time.
& I reckon he's right here.

blueshirt west brit types tend to be pro Zionism,
I would expect Harris to be pro Zionism.
 


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