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Financial Times - The bailout may have been required even if the banks had not failed


Mr. Magpie

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Oct 14, 2011
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Ireland’s woes are more than a bank crisis - FT.com


Between 2008 and 2015, three-quarters of the increase in Ireland’s net debt will be accounted for by the budget deficit, as opposed to recapitalisation of its banks. In other words, the bailout may have been required even if the banks had not run aground.

A “social partnership” model, in which unions, employers and the government sat down to agree pay deals, enabled the public sector to expand 35 per cent between 2000 and 2008. A secretive “benchmarking process” was set up that awarded public servants an average 32 per cent pay rise between 2003 and 2008, with only lip service paid to reforms.
It is well worth a read an highlights the point that it was greed and lousy politicians that got us where we are.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Surely it was the banking collapse which made the markets very nervous about Ireland?
 

Mr. Magpie

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Oct 14, 2011
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Surely it was the banking collapse which made the markets very nervous about Ireland?

Read this sentence over and over, and over, and over...and then read it some more.

Between 2008 and 2015, three-quarters of the increase in Ireland’s net debt will be accounted for by the budget deficit, as opposed to recapitalisation of its banks. In other words, the bailout may have been required even if the banks had not run aground.
Spend was, and still is, out of control.
 

Howya

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Surely it was the banking collapse which made the markets very nervous about Ireland?
I think the banking collapse was the trigger that focused attention - and what they saw scared the hell out of them - the banks were just the tip of the iceberg...cue images of the titanic...
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Read this sentence over and over, and over, and over...and then read it some more.



Spend was, and still is, out of control.
Spending is still 'out of control', yet we will probably emerge from the bailout at the end of the year. Markets are all about sentiment. Markets were terrified of what might happen in Ireland, given that its banks had collapsed.
 
G

Gimpanzee

A “social partnership” model, in which unions, employers and the government sat down to agree pay deals, enabled the public sector to expand 35 per cent between 2000 and 2008. A secretive “benchmarking process” was set up that awarded public servants an average 32 per cent pay rise between 2003 and 2008, with only lip service paid to reforms.
but... but... pay freezes! (excluding increments) ... no more to give.... etc..
 
B

birthday

I think the banking collapse was the trigger that focused attention - and what they saw scared the hell out of them - the banks were just the tip of the iceberg...cue images of the titanic...
Take a bow Bertie, Cormac McCarthy, David Doyle etc

The FT mentions lip service being paid to reforms. I recall that one reform mentioned by Damien Kiberd at the time was a commitment to joining 'happy heart clubs'!
 

Lonewolfe

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Read this sentence over and over, and over, and over...and then read it some more.



Spend was, and still is, out of control.
And we've a deficit because we spend more than we take in and we take in less because we have less jobs and we have less jobs because the construction sector sank and the construction sector sank because the banking sector sank.

Edit - Of course we should never have been so dependent on construction to prop up our economy. But hey, that's all thanks to FF, the developer's party.
 
Last edited:

nonpartyboy

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Dec 24, 2006
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6,857
we are spending €20bn on social welfare and another €10bn on the HSE, how could that ever have been sustainable ?
 

RobertW

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Feb 11, 2011
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Read this sentence over and over, and over, and over...and then read it some more.

Spend was, and still is, out of control.
You provide a link discussing pay to public servants (people getting paid for their skills and services. . .imagine - the cheek).

You then mention about spending out of control but yet you do not mention social welfare expenditure.

A thread title which bears no reference to your own argument. . . and deliberately derailed by yourself.
 

beazlebottom

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Jan 10, 2011
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Read this sentence over and over, and over, and over...and then read it some more.



Spend was, and still is, out of control.
We can thank Knobend (Ahern), the Fat Drunken Biffo and the Deaf Fella for where we find ourselves. Needless to say their inflated pensions etc will still be paid to the bustards instead of they being held to account in a Court of Law for the wanton misery they have wreaked.
 
G

Gimpanzee

And we've a deficit because we spend more than we take in and we take in less because we have less jobs and we have less jobs because the construction sector sank and the construction sector sank because the banking sector sank.
The banks brought down the construction sector? So it the banks had just kept plowing money into the property market then everything would have been hunky dory? How very 2008 of you!

We have a huge deficit because of Bertinomics. It was totally unsustainable (pension commitments etc..), even if everyone of the banks was someone elses problem. It is pushing it to say that we'ed need a bailout though, but we would have needed a massive overhaul of the public finances and the public service being dragged screaming much the same as it is today.
 
G

Gimpanzee

Take a bow Bertie, Cormac McCarthy, David Doyle etc

The FT mentions lip service being paid to reforms. I recall that one reform mentioned by Damien Kiberd at the time was a commitment to joining 'happy heart clubs'!
The Road isn't real, you know. Things are bad but not that bad.
 

mr. jings

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Mar 31, 2008
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8,095
I can't bring myself to think of Bertie and FF - old and new - on a beautiful day like today. It'd be like sprinkling mouse droppings on my 99.
 

Lonewolfe

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May 4, 2011
Messages
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The banks brought down the construction sector? So it the banks had just kept plowing money into the property market then everything would have been hunky dory? How very 2008 of you!

We have a huge deficit because of Bertinomics. It was totally unsustainable (pension commitments etc..), even if everyone of the banks was someone elses problem. It is pushing it to say that we'ed need a bailout though, but we would have needed a massive overhaul of the public finances and the public service being dragged screaming much the same as it is today.
No silly. The construction bubble was bound to burst some day and we never should have been so dependent upon it.

However, we do have an unemployment crisis and this has lead to our deficit. What we now need is a gradual correction of our deficit. Not the overnight shock to the system which (some of us) are experiencing.

Unfortunately, Ze Germans won't allow quantitative easing.
 

leftsoc

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Joined
Mar 8, 2005
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2,848
Ireland’s woes are more than a bank crisis - FT.com



It is well worth a read an highlights the point that it was greed and lousy politicians that got us where we are.

Wasn't there an internal IMF report that said the Guarantee and particularly the guarantee to Anglo, not only caused Ireland's sovereign debt crisis but Greece's and then all the others as well? This looks like the FT rewriting history to whitewash their banker friends .
 
G

Gimpanzee

No silly. The construction bubble was bound to burst some day and we never should have been so dependent upon it.

However, we do have an unemployment crisis and this has lead to our deficit. What we now need is a gradual correction of our deficit. Not the overnight shock to the system which (some of us) are experiencing.

Unfortunately, Ze Germans won't allow quantitative easing.
Overnight? The crash happened in 2008!

Agreed on the construction bubble. I remember the ESRI politely suggesting that maybe it might not be a good idea to have 25% of the ecomonic output from construction around 2004. In a sort of plastic bag and a child looking for something to play with sort of way.

And QE is bollocks. Just look at Britain.
 

Mr. Magpie

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Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
394
You provide a link discussing pay to public servants (people getting paid for their skills and services. . .imagine - the cheek).
No - I provided a link to an article in the Financial Times promoting a book.


You then mention about spending out of control but yet you do not mention social welfare expenditure.
social welfare expenditure is spending, I said spending is out of control, social welfare expenditure is a part of spending, spending is out of control - shall we continue around this circle?

A thread title which bears no reference to your own argument. . . and deliberately derailed by yourself.
My Thread Title:
Financial Times - The bailout may have been required even if the banks had not failed

Quote from article:
In other words, the bailout may have been required even if the banks had not run aground.
 
G

Gimpanzee

Wasn't there an internal IMF report that said the Guarantee and particularly the guarantee to Anglo, not only caused Ireland's sovereign debt crisis but Greece's and then all the others as well? This looks like the FT rewriting history to whitewash their banker friends .
I'd be absolutely certain that there wasn't any such report.
 
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