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Fine Gael and Fianna Fail... What's the difference?


Kiran

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Apr 16, 2009
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1
Aside from civil war differences, what exactly are the differences between Fine Gael and Fianna Fail? Of course, they have differences on issues to with the health service and our economic recovery but apart from them, on an ideological basis what exactly are the main differences?
 

Baron von Biffo

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May 16, 2007
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11,466
Aside from civil war differences, what exactly are the differences between Fine Gael and Fianna Fail? Of course, they have differences on issues to with the health service and our economic recovery but apart from them, on an ideological basis what exactly are the main differences?
The FG crowd wash more frequently.
 

geraghd

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Dec 22, 2003
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474
Christian Democracy vs Populism.
 

121.5

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May 8, 2009
Messages
74
Aside from civil war differences, what exactly are the differences between Fine Gael and Fianna Fail? Of course, they have differences on issues to with the health service and our economic recovery but apart from them, on an ideological basis what exactly are the main differences?
FF places their party before the Nations interests and cherishes corruption.

FG would be considered more honest.
 

KATHY

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Mar 22, 2007
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EK told the following story of a Fine Gael TD in an argument with someone who follows the Fintan O'Toole line that Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are essentially the same.

"Give me two differences," the questioner demanded. "Just two, between your lot and Fianna Fáil." The answer came without hesitation.
"First, Fine Gael never had a corrupt leader.
Second, we tell the truth about the economy."
And while we're at it there's a third.
Economically, we combine decisiveness with direction and we always put the public interest first”.

I have to say for me personally the main difference can be summed up in one word ‘INTEGRITY’
 

Panopticon

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Aside from civil war differences, what exactly are the differences between Fine Gael and Fianna Fail? Of course, they have differences on issues to with the health service and our economic recovery but apart from them, on an ideological basis what exactly are the main differences?
The major difference is that Fine Gael are less nationalist and more internationalist. They are also more middle-class, less working-class and not coincidentally more economically right-wing (as a party; coalition governments are a different matter).
 

Mr.De-Regulation

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Dec 16, 2008
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455
FF general are more pro-statism. They seem to let certain institutions have great power over ordinary citizens like trade unions, big developers and the church.

Were as FG think the government should be run like an insurance company with the Irish people as the share holders, with ability to elects its managers,i.e. TDs.
 

seenitallb4

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Apr 28, 2009
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197
Are you all out of your minds? There is no material difference between FF and FG. There are differences in tone, emphasis, histories and style; however, there are no differences in substance. Some would mention corruption but I don't buy that for a minute- to be corrupt you need a long period in power, but since FG have never had such a period, they did not have ample opportunity to be corrupt. However, even their last 5 minute spell in power was not without scandal. Policy- not that I can see: they both support Lisbon, they are both into restoring the fiscal balance, they both had a hand in our 12.5 corporate tax rate, they both would be comfortable in coalitions with pretty much anyone, and they both ran on simliar policies in 07. Saying that they are different and that those differences are important is no more rational than having a strong emotional preference for Nokia over Motorola.
 

Panopticon

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In practice, differences in emphasis lead to differences in substance. For instance, under a Fine Gael government, it's unlikely that we would have had the Defence Forces of the Republic staging a military parade to celebrate the 90th anniversary of an insurrection.
 

seenitallb4

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In practice, differences in emphasis lead to differences in substance. For instance, under a Fine Gael government, it's unlikely that we would have had the Defence Forces of the Republic staging a military parade to celebrate the 90th anniversary of an insurrection.
And thus the State and its people were forever changed........
 

hiding behind a poster

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48,240
In practice, differences in emphasis lead to differences in substance. For instance, under a Fine Gael government, it's unlikely that we would have had the Defence Forces of the Republic staging a military parade to celebrate the 90th anniversary of an insurrection.
:roll: Wow, way to look at the big picture.
 

Panopticon

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I never claimed that the differences were large, because I agree with other contributors that we have no evidence of significant economic or social policy differences which would have happened in the event of a Fine Gael-led government.
 

seenitallb4

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I never claimed that the differences were large, because I agree with other contributors that we have no evidence of significant economic or social policy differences which would have happened in the event of a Fine Gael-led government.
And I am sorry for being a sarcastic pr!ck
 

atlantic

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Jan 25, 2008
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649
The best thing to look at is the percentage of schoolteachers,which ever one is the highest stay well clear.
Aside from civil war differences, what exactly are the differences between Fine Gael and Fianna Fail? Of course, they have differences on issues to with the health service and our economic recovery but apart from them, on an ideological basis what exactly are the main differences?
 

evercloserunion

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Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
819
EK told the following story of a Fine Gael TD in an argument with someone who follows the Fintan O'Toole line that Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are essentially the same.

"Give me two differences," the questioner demanded. "Just two, between your lot and Fianna Fáil." The answer came without hesitation.
"First, Fine Gael never had a corrupt leader.
Second, we tell the truth about the economy."
And while we're at it there's a third.
Economically, we combine decisiveness with direction and we always put the public interest first”.

I have to say for me personally the main difference can be summed up in one word ‘INTEGRITY’
You see, there is no policy or ideological difference there. Basically EK is saying that the difference between FG and FF is that FG are better but it's hardly surprising that he'd think like that.
 

Pedro Pique

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Apr 7, 2009
Messages
75
One party has better PR. Thats about it really.
 

SamVimesBoots

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May 27, 2009
Messages
139
I think there's actually very very large differences between FF and FG, in culture and in policy. But it has become accepted conventional wisdom that they are exactly the same. Trotting out this line is a strategic aid to both Fianna Fáil (who thereby put across the "better the divil ye know, sure them Blueshirts would do everything we do anyway but they're nowhere near as much fun and don't give as many sweeties as we do" line which up til now has been very successful for them) and Labour (who thus actually have an issue on which to pretend to be the "real force for change", hence reducing FGs appeal for those tired of FF, thus leaving the door always open to coalition with either FF or FG. It's not in Labours interest for either to grow too strong). Both FF and Labour hacks in de meeja relentlessly trot out this "FF and FG are the same" line - it suits supporters of both parties to let this line become the "what everybody knows" of Irish politics.

There is an element of truth in that both party's local councillors tend to be utter gombeen mucksavages. But then almost every local councillor in Ireland is a gombeen mucksavage, regardless of party.

So that's the motivations for the "sure der all de same" talk you always hear.

FF are a classical clientelist Peronist-style party like, well, the Peronists in Argentina, the MRI in Mexico or the LDP in Japan. The entire point of the State is to provide jobs for the local supporters, local pork investment schemes, and generally to keep the faithful happy and continuing to vote for you. The point of those workers and businesses not within the State/clientelist sector is to provide the taxes to keep the welfare coming. The party is run by and for the interests of donors from a few favoured industries - e.g. in Japan the LDP is run by and for the public-sector unions and the connected bosses of the zaibatsu. FF is run by and for the public sector unions, the builders and the publicans. Peronist-style parties also exhibit the curious trick of being their own opposition. Being comprised of a bunch of vested interests in uneasy cooperation to divy up the spoils amongst themselves, various vested interests often squabble for Top Dog position and Cabinet Ministers will frequently go off on solo-runs looking for additional pork for their faction. Power struggles within the established Party between factions are often far more important for determining the future direction of the country than any mere General Election. Again, the similarities between FF and the LDP are striking here.

Peronist parties by their very nature always end up quite startlingly corrupt.

FG are a conservative fiscal-rectitude law-and-responsibility party in the Christian Democrat mould. The State exists as a body with the Authority to pass Law, regulations, establish standards and ensure personal responsibility. The purpose of the State is to provide a stable environment of impartial Law, and to provide public goods for the disadvantaged and for reasons of public health and overall national competitiveness. The State exists therefore as a support mechanism, it's purpose being to provide the stable lawful environment and healthy educated populace that Enterprise needs to create real wealth.

Here is by far the profoundest cultural difference between FF and FG - the nature and purpose of the State. FG clearly have very very different policies to the FF/PD government in recent years, not least on such trivial matters as how to sort out the banks, co-location and health service privatisation, universal health insurance, public sector administrative and employment reform, the economy generally, the attitude to borrowing and where new jobs should come from, corruption and ethics in public life. Just off the top of me head, like.

And when you look at those very different policies in light of the attitude of both parties to the purpose of the State, you'll see I'm not far from the truth and that there is a big, big difference between FF and FG.

Now, in the same light, look at Labour.

And you can see that What Everybody Knows is quite simply, and as usual, just plain wrong. It's not FF and FG that are fundamentally the same - it's FF and Labour!

I'm not particularly fond of FG - their social conservatism, occassional hang-em-and-flog-em outbursts, and the small-but-barking-mad Anglophile rump leave me cold. But while I dislike authoritarianism and curtain-twitchers, I loathe corrupt Peronist gombeen pork merchants masquerading as politicians while they parasitically bleed the country white.

Clientelist Peronist vampires have to be removed from power for a generation if we are to have any chance of rescuing the country. If that means 15 years of a centre-right law-and-order FG Government then so be it. This place has become a corrupt lawless cesspit under endless FF rule, and it has to stop.
 

Kensington

Active member
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
149
In practice, there is absolutely no difference. During the Celtic Tiger, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael both supported reducing taxes aiding the property bubble and ... er ... just going with the flow. Neither party demonstrated that they had a clue about what was actually going on.

Fianna Fail have much more experience so, if we are being honest, they would be the better of the two in leading us through this without it being a complete disaster.

Fine gael have that guy from the telly who, though he didn't offer any alternative to our economic policies during the last decade, now, apparently is the man with the answers.

So, he wants to cut some taxes a bit; raise other ones a bit. He mentions the obligatory 'quangos', 'public sector' and 'competitiveness. He also wants to invest in Green Energy and Broadband (how very original).

Both parties will just go with the flow. They haven't a clue how to actually sort it out, so they will waffle at if for a while and hope that Obama sorts it out.
 

Pedro Pique

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
75
Oh there are dramatic differences of course , just dont expect to see them anytime before Lisbon 2 .:rolleyes: Yes , two very different parties indeed. :lol:
 
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