• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Fine Gael economic mismanagement: 1980's. Can anyone defend it?


Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,210
Fine Gael economic management: 1980's. How did they do?

This is how Fine Gael and Labour left the Irish economy. They held office from November 1982 to March 1987 (ie the longest government of the '80s), yet they blame Haughey for the woes of the economy (Lynch was in charge 77 to 79, haughey Dec 79 to 81, Fitzgerald held power briefly, Haughey's GUBU made way for Fitzgerald's hapless government.)

Here is the sitution in 1987.
The following factors give an indication of the extent of the difficulties
a) a Gross Domestic Product per capita which is only 64 per cent of the EC average

b) a National Debt of over £25 billion which is equivalent to more than one and one-half times of our Gross Naional Product and the servicing
of which consumes annually one-third of Exchequer tax revenue,

(c) an Exchequer borrowing requirsmenr of 10.7 per cent ofGross National
Product in 1987 to finance both current and capital expenditure. This
is among the highest budgetary deficits in the European Community,

d) high nominal and real interest rates which are a barrier to investment,

(e) an unemploymcnt rare of 18.5 per cent of rhe work-force amounting to
242,000 persons. of whom 73,000 are under 25 years of age. This is one
of the highest rates of unemployment in the European Comrnunitv,

f)employment in agriculture which continues to decline steadily at a rate
almost twice the European Community average,

g) net emigration estimated currently at close to 30,000 and which is equivalent
to the natural increase in the population. and

(h) no overall growth in the volume of investment in equipment over the
past 5 years compared with an increase of20 per cent in the European
Community.
http://www.ictu.ie/download/pdf/program_for_national_recovery.pdf

The wiki short version
Fine Gael wanted to revive the economy by controlling public spending and imposing cutbacks in order to reduce the public budget deficit. The measures proposed by FitzGerald's Minister for Finance, Alan Dukes, were completely unacceptable to the Labour Party which was under enormous pressure from its support base to maintain public services. The two parties in Government found themselves in a stalemate position. They stopped the financial crisis from worsening but could not take the decisive action that would generate economic growth.
A few points arise:
1. The deficit for 1983 to 1987 was 8% and over.
After the programme for National Recovery, Haughey's government slashed it to 3%.
2. FG wanted to revive - sounds very weak. Why didn't they?
3. Is slamming on the breaks (particularly to inflation), good enough to justify the mythology that FG is superior to other parties on the economy?

Does anyone want to try defend the Economic Management of FG in the 1980's? (see if they can do without using the name Haughey)

(Here is the current statistics.
http://www.centralbank.ie/data/AnnRepFiles/2009 Compendium of Irish Economic Statistics.pdf)
 
Last edited:


hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,387
Title the thread properly, as in seeking to have a proper debate about the economy in the 1980s, and I'm sure plenty of people will. But the thread title makes it clear that you're only interested in FG-bashing, and have little if any interest in the actual subject matter.
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,210
Title the thread properly, as in seeking to have a proper debate about the economy in the 1980s, and I'm sure plenty of people will. But the thread title makes it clear that you're only interested in FG-bashing, and have little if any interest in the actual subject matter.
So no, you cannot/refuse to defend their performance.

(if any mod wants to change the title to a neutral one, so be it, but neutral titled threads tend to dissappear).
 

davehiggz

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,116
It's pretty clear from the Wikipedia quote that it was primarily Labour's fault.

If Fine Gael had an overall majority then tougher policies would have been initiated and the economy would have been saved. If FG had pushed harder then Labour probably would have pulled the plug.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,387
So no, you cannot/refuse to defend their performance.
I said nothing of the sort, so kindly stop misrepresenting me.

(if any mod wants to change the title to a neutral one, so be it, but neutral titled threads tend to dissappear).
If the subject matter within a thread is good, it tends to get plenty of replies. Threads that are obviously trolling generally don't. The way you've titled this thread suggests you're looking for the latter.
 

Edo

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
3,052
One would enter into a discussion on the topic - but one look at the identity of the OP tends to put one off.

Primarily because Congaltee/Q24U/Apparatik? and whatever else they have been in a past life around here is a notorious sh^tstirrer, an infamous FG baiter despite the protestations and primarily because once a serious discussion develops - they are incapable of participating -well make one or 2 lame attempts at getting the thread back to their original purpose - FG baiting - and then will piss off.

God be with the days of full employment around here - even tho we had less time to be here - a bit more thought and considersation used to be put into discussions - now its just a hacks/NWO fruitcakes paradise with over 90% of posters incapable of stringing 10 sentences together in a coherent manner without descending into the usual nonsense - I even miss Merle Haggard - and given the jousting we've done down the years that is really saying something - it least he was funny,smart,eloquent and capable of serious conversation - tho completely off his rocker - a few honourable individuals remain - but are staying mostly in the shadows.

Me thinks there has to be another way of regaining a bit of respect for this place - rather than the full membership ban at the moment.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,910
FG F***** it up and forced hundreds of thousands to emigrate with no hope.

Expect to get abused for even suggesting that the incompetence of Garret the Good and his fellow travellers should even be looked at critically.
 

meriwether

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,591
FG F***** it up and forced hundreds of thousands to emigrate with no hope.

Expect to get abused for even suggesting that the incompetence of Garret the Good and his fellow travellers should even be looked at critically.

Case closed.

The economic intelligensia have spoken.
 

eoinod

Active member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
261
1. The economy of purely fecked after years of FF in power.

2. Labour/FG couldn't agree as to the best way to clean up FF's mess and therefore couldn't fix it properly.

Worth noting that this time around FF are being forced to pick up the pieces left by their own mismanagement of the economy. Also, thread title and OP statement is loaded and reeks of an FF hack completely uninterested in debate, only shouting from a pulpit an attack on the "blueshirts".
 

KingKane

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
2,323
Website
www.danielsullivan.ie
Twitter
kingkane
So no, you cannot/refuse to defend their performance.

(if any mod wants to change the title to a neutral one, so be it, but neutral titled threads tend to dissappear).
Irish national debt in the 1980s - the figures and the facts|Daniel Sullivan - he’s a little political

Economic performance isn't based on actual decades you know, it's not like party X's performance wins decade Y. Or that things are reset at the end of a decade.

I think FG/Lab could have done better while in government, but your post is about absolving FF for the accelerating of the deterioration in the public finances and pretending that FG/Lab were starting with a blank slate.
 

markeys

Active member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
273
Did you see the state of the economy they were handed by the crooks in FF? It's no wonder so many emigrated during FG time in power. It was too little too late to save most.

Now, it seems history is repeating. FF/GReens are bankrupting the country - literally. Mass unemployment and every single taxpayer in debt to the banks thanks to NAMA and billions of taxpayers money handed over by FF to their mates.

Soon, whenever it happens, history will repeat itself - FF will hand over what's left of the country to FG. And FG will be left to attempt to sort out the mess. I suggest it's first step should be scrapping the tribunals and instigating criminal proceedings against FF thieves and traitors.
 

KingKane

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
2,323
Website
www.danielsullivan.ie
Twitter
kingkane
FG F***** it up and forced hundreds of thousands to emigrate with no hope.

Expect to get abused for even suggesting that the incompetence of Garret the Good and his fellow travellers should even be looked at critically.
Worth noting the peak years of emigration were under FF.
 

DCon

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
5,901
Out of interest, if FG or FG/LAB inherit this basket case of an economy from Fianna Fail, will FFers immediately start blaming FG for all the economic woes?

I can just see Cowen/Lenihan complaining about high unemployment and under-funding of the HSE on their second day in Opposition.
 

Simbo67

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
572
What a troll thread. The op is dumb for starting it. Its like blaming the allies for bombing Berlin in April 1945 without explaining the context of the previous decade. What a stupid thread.
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,210
I posted some statistics from 1987. The obvious starting point for anyone to defend FG's term in office is those same statistics from 1982/3.
Nobody has.
There have been bizarre attempts to avoid the net issue of this thread: Can anyone defend the record of that government with anything resembling a fact? (clue: look at inflation rates for a start but also look at deficit, unemployment, interest rates).
 

Mitsui2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
33,330
It's an interesting thought though that - given the short collective memory of the electorate that makes threads with nonnsensical titles such as this even possible - there's a good chance that in thirty years it may just be possible for some FF drone to make such a claim (however maliciously).

The one sure way to avoid this, seems to me, would be for the next FG govt to immediately launch a full, no-holds-barred enquiry into FFs handling of the economy during the boom years.

Now there's a report I'd pay to read!
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,210
Irish national debt in the 1980s - the figures and the facts|Daniel Sullivan - he’s a little political

Economic performance isn't based on actual decades you know, it's not like party X's performance wins decade Y. Or that things are reset at the end of a decade.

I think FG/Lab could have done better while in government, but your post is about absolving FF for the accelerating of the deterioration in the public finances and pretending that FG/Lab were starting with a blank slate.
It would take a lot of vodka to absolve FF (and Lynch and Cowen in particular) from the detiorating the public finances (1977 to 1982 and indeed 2008-2011).


But these are the FG figures (kindly supplied by you good self) for the natioanl debt. What is the explantion for 1986?
1983 - 18,274 which is a 23.33% increase on previous year

1984 - 21,358 which is a 16.87% increase on previous year

1985 - 23,492 which is a 9.99% increase on previous year

1986 - 27,440 which is a 16.8% increase on previous year

1987 - 30,085 which is a 9.63% increase on previous year
Could have done better is rather an understatment.
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,210
One would enter into a discussion on the topic - but one look at the identity of the OP tends to put one off.

Primarily because Congaltee/Q24U/Apparatik? and whatever else they have been in a past life around here is a notorious sh^tstirrer, an infamous FG baiter despite the protestations and primarily because once a serious discussion develops - they are incapable of participating -well make one or 2 lame attempts at getting the thread back to their original purpose - FG baiting - and then will piss off.
Never Apparatik. I do challenge Fine Gaelers on their myths, that somehow they are superior on the economy than all other parties.

This thread is a request to Fine Gael to defend their record in government. It is a long time ago, and the previous 5 years were disasters (Lynch, Haughey, Fitzgerald, Haughey), but the 82 to 87 government was the longest.

It is HbaP who has tried to derail this thread by avoding the topic. Some have taken their cue from him.

The reason for this thread, he claimed on another thread that he had a link to explain FG management of the economy, it has failed ot materialise on that thread or this.
http://www.politics.ie/fine-gael/123152-do-fine-gael-hacks-hold-party-back-6.html#post2430506
 
Last edited:

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top