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Fine Gael - The Bailout Party

kerrynorth

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Oct 5, 2005
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If FF are the Republican Party then FG are clearly the Bailout Party. From the Party that brought you proposals to compensate Eircom shareholders, and taxi plate holders they are now proposing the mother of all bailouts - developers and residential property investors. Make no mistake - their proposal for a State backed home equity purchase fund is no more than a charter for the bailout of developers and investors using taxpayers money. You could not make this stuff up. Market interference with subsidies through tax breaks etc got us into this mess in the first place and FG's solution is even more subsidies through an indirect social wefare scheme for developers/investors!
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 77596.html
 


polito123

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May 2, 2008
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Fr. Hank Tree said:
kerrynorth said:
If FF are the Republican Party then FG are clearly the Bailout Party.
Well in that case FG aren't the Bailout party. :mrgreen:
The Republican party my ass!!
 

Edo

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May 12, 2007
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Ah Jaysus - would somebody tell Phil that the summer holidays have started - he has full permission to go now - as far away as possible and leave the economic talking to Richard and Leo.

Then again ,on second thoughts - I come from his constituency and construction has been the only game in town down there for the last 5 years - no harm in throwing a wink in the builders direction - it isnt just the "Fat Cat" developers who are affected - try your strict by the book monetarist economics on the 50,000 or so builders and god knows how many other suppliers to the construction industry who are shortly to join the dole queue and see how it goes down hmmm?

No harm done really - nothing like a bit of populist rabble rousing to let the Government who are solely concentrating all their effort on.....well I dont know.............whatever they do in the summer time that is so different than any other time I suppose................, its good to let the Gov know that you haven't gone away - no rest for the wicked kind of thing.
 

Stíofán

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A State-provided home equity support scheme would finance a certain percentage of the home for applicants who meet the current affordable housing criteria. “Such a scheme would take advantage of the overhang in the property market to provide additional homes for social and affordable housing,” he said
This is what you seem to be suggesting is a bailout. It seems they are suggesting the governemt should take advantage of the property downturn to buy vacant housing for those on council housing waiting lists. I know my own council bought housing in some large new developemnts for social and affordable housing at the very height of the property boom. FG's proposal seems reasonable to me.

They also propose:

... the commencement of Section 110 of the Finance Act 2007, designed to close a loophole for landowners and developers.

Fine Gael would also place a restriction on the exemption from stamp duty on first-time buyers, where the property value exceeds €500,000.
Two measures designed to target developers and the well off, rather than a 'bailout'. :roll:

One thinks you may be seeing what you want to see.
 

culbair

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Nov 25, 2006
Messages
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FG did not create the present mess. I suppose KerryNorth would have been against Roosevelt's New Deal also. FF is the Boom and Bust Party.
 

KingKane

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kingkane
kerrynorth said:
If FF are the Republican Party then FG are clearly the Bailout Party. From the Party that brought you proposals to compensate Eircom shareholders, and taxi plate holders they are now proposing the mother of all bailouts - developers and residential property investors. Make no mistake - their proposal for a State backed home equity purchase fund is no more than a charter for the bailout of developers and investors using taxpayers money. You could not make this stuff up. Market interference with subsidies through tax breaks etc got us into this mess in the first place and FG's solution is even more subsidies through an indirect social wefare scheme for developers/investors!
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 77596.html

From the article - "A State-provided home equity support scheme would finance a certain percentage of the home for applicants who meet the current affordable housing criteria. “Such a scheme would take advantage of the overhang in the property market to provide additional homes for social and affordable housing,” ." How is this a bailout of developers? It is simply ensuring that housing is made available for those meeting the social and affordable criteria. The existing local authority rent/buy scheme is substantially the same as this proposal only FG has demonstrated how to direct more funds into this area by closing a loophole that allows big shots to avoid paying stamp duty.
 

mairteenpak

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Apr 21, 2008
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196
It is the price of property that is over hung not the supply.
Property is just too expensive in relation to current interest rates. The prices were set in a low interest rate environment.

The State has no business bailing out the Developers.
 

SPN

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Edo said:
Ah Jaysus - would somebody tell Phil that the summer holidays have started - he has full permission to go now - as far away as possible and leave the economic talking to Richard and Leo.
I think after Leo's cack handed performance on Q&A tonight the Party should be looking at sending him on holidays too.

Where do they get them?
 

KingKane

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kingkane
SPN said:
Edo said:
Ah Jaysus - would somebody tell Phil that the summer holidays have started - he has full permission to go now - as far away as possible and leave the economic talking to Richard and Leo.
I think after Leo's cack handed performance on Q&A tonight the Party should be looking at sending him on holidays too.

Where do they get them?
Eamon Ryan - More Fianna Fail that Fianna Fail themselves...
 

factual

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KingKane said:
SPN said:
Edo said:
Ah Jaysus - would somebody tell Phil that the summer holidays have started - he has full permission to go now - as far away as possible and leave the economic talking to Richard and Leo.
I think after Leo's cack handed performance on Q&A tonight the Party should be looking at sending him on holidays too.

Where do they get them?
Eamon Ryan - More Fianna Fail that Fianna Fail themselves...
:lol:
 

culbair

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Nov 25, 2006
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Eamonn Ryan was roasted tonight. FF politicians can hide and allow people such as Ryan to take the flack. One thing is certain Ryan is not running a business. He lives in a green dreamland. Ireland has the second highest electricity prices in the EU. Meanwhile the Chinese and Indians can wreak havoc on the environment.
 

SPN

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factual said:
KingKane said:
Eamon Ryan - More Fianna Fail that Fianna Fail themselves...
:lol:
To quote Seamus Brennan:

"Ye're Playing Senior Hurling now Lads!

But don't worry, ye've some All Ireland Winners on the Team"

Remember, the alternative was to tog out with the Mayo Junior B Team ;)
 

KingKane

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kingkane
SPN said:
factual said:
KingKane said:
Eamon Ryan - More Fianna Fail that Fianna Fail themselves...
:lol:
To quote Seamus Brennan:

"Ye're Playing Senior Hurling now Lads!

But don't worry, ye've some All Ireland Winners on the Team"

Remember, the alternative was to tog out with the Mayo Junior B Team ;)
I'm afraid I'm from big ball country and we've the trophies to prove it.
 

powderfinger

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Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
3,350
kerrynorth said:
If FF are the Republican Party then FG are clearly the Bailout Party. From the Party that brought you proposals to compensate Eircom shareholders, and taxi plate holders they are now proposing the mother of all bailouts - developers and residential property investors. Make no mistake - their proposal for a State backed home equity purchase fund is no more than a charter for the bailout of developers and investors using taxpayers money. You could not make this stuff up. Market interference with subsidies through tax breaks etc got us into this mess in the first place and FG's solution is even more subsidies through an indirect social wefare scheme for developers/investors!
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 77596.html
Regardless of political divide,any suggestion for further State intervention in the approaching splat is strictly loolah.The Irish Property Market has been built on foundations of quicksand.The patent greed of the main partners in this opportunistic game will be the downfall.Bankers driven by aggressive lending practices which really revved up in the last few years have got themselves mired in deep shite.In essence,having cashed in their personal property holdings in Sale and Leaseback arrangements ,and disposals of their Branch Networks;they then blew the cash and some on what has rapidly morphed into a pile of quicksilver.Fool's Gold.Developers were no longer mere clients,they were now partners.Government intervention was beneficial and significant.Parlon went at it like a mad sheepdog at the OPW,"maximising the intrinsic value" of the State Property portfolio.Requests for dig-outs for an oul project or two were delivered usually via the oxymoronic ppp or transferrable capital allowance.The Affordable Housing Scheme is another such fiscal paradox in a crashing property market.It looks more like a welfare scheme for vested interests.Market fixing and intervention pricing would surely be anti-competitive.
 

powderfinger

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The multi-talented Parlon is hawking himself around the airwaves,pronouncing that the hijacking of the dubious NPRF is on the table.The Irish economy is a crime scene, the latest caper involves pure strokenomics.Let us see now which of the main political parties tacitly endorse the Stealth State Bailouts(SSB's) that are underway.If we took a holiday and returned in 11 weeks time ,the bones of Robert Maxwell would probably be rattling on the Board of NPRF plc.Dug up for the Digout.
 

riker1969

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There is nothing in the plan about aiding Developers -nothing. Buying cheap housing for people on waiting lists thats it. Dont think that would help developers unless it was bought at a crazy price. Unlike FF -FG dont throw money at developers by giving them tax breaks-! Nor do we pay inflated prices for things. Thats a Fianna Failure thing. This is not even a central FG policy-so dont get your knickers in a twist.
 

kerrynorth

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riker1969 said:
There is nothing in the plan about aiding Developers -nothing. Buying cheap housing for people on waiting lists thats it. Dont think that would help developers unless it was bought at a crazy price.
Who do you think they are proposing to buy all these units off of? If the government does not interfere then the market will find its own equilibrium. This proposal by interfering in the market above and beyond the norm will put an artificial floor on price above that which the market would dictate i.e. a developers/landlords Social Welfare scheme.
 

KingKane

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kingkane
kerrynorth said:
riker1969 said:
There is nothing in the plan about aiding Developers -nothing. Buying cheap housing for people on waiting lists thats it. Dont think that would help developers unless it was bought at a crazy price.
Who do you think they are proposing to buy all these units off of? If the government does not interfere then the market will find its own equilibrium. This proposal by interfering in the market above and beyond the norm will put an artificial floor on price above that which the market would dictate i.e. a developers/landlords Social Welfare scheme.
So the government buying when the market wasn't in equilibrium up to now was fine and dandy? FG are talking about making finance available to buyers for only a portion of the house price not the totality, the purchasers would be the ones negotiating the price not the state. Did you read this at all?
 

powderfinger

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Jun 13, 2007
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KingKane said:
kerrynorth said:
riker1969 said:
There is nothing in the plan about aiding Developers -nothing. Buying cheap housing for people on waiting lists thats it. Dont think that would help developers unless it was bought at a crazy price.
Who do you think they are proposing to buy all these units off of? If the government does not interfere then the market will find its own equilibrium. This proposal by interfering in the market above and beyond the norm will put an artificial floor on price above that which the market would dictate i.e. a developers/landlords Social Welfare scheme.
So the government buying when the market wasn't in equilibrium up to now was fine and dandy? FG are talking about making finance available to buyers for only a portion of the house price not the totality, the purchasers would be the ones negotiating the price not the state. Did you read this at all?
Looking at the plethora of inactivity in the Dublin Dogbox sector ,it would appear that DCC are in effect',underwriting a break even price for speculative developments with the recent rapid expansion of housing now proferred under the Affordable scheme.Looks like the affordabilty variable is far more responsive to Property market makers rather than seekers.This market perversion is further compounded by the economic fact that the tab for this particular SSB is guaranteed by an IOU from the ubiquitous constant.The taxpayer.Any chance of some gazundering from local Government?
 


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