Finnegans Wake war

El Libre

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As might have been predicted, war has broken out over a new 'corrected' edition of James Joyce's Finnegans Wake, edited by Danis Rose and John O'Hanlon and published by Houyhnhnm Press. But don't all rush out to buy it as it costs €300.

First out of the traps has been Terence Killeen who wrote a critical review in last Saturday's Irish Times, headed 'A flawed Finnegans Wake-up call' and declining to give Rose and O'Hanlon's edition a 'warm welcome'. In today's IT Bruce Arnold, who had championed the new edition of the Wake in the Indo, steps in to defend Rose and O'Hanlon (brothers apparently), describing Killeen's review as 'dismissive' and wondering why he had not travelled out to Strawberry Beds to talk things over with the two lads before publishing. Anthony Farrell of Houyhnhnm also weighs in, referring to Killeen's 'remarkable begrudgery' in the face of the 'finest feat of Irish textual scholarship of recent decades'.

Keen observers of the Joycean scene are waiting with bated breaths to see what happens next. And oh yes, I must have another go at reading Finnegans Wake. :confused:
 


TommyO'Brien

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As might have been predicted, war has broken out over a new 'corrected' edition of James Joyce's Finnegans Wake, edited by Danis Rose and John O'Hanlon and published by Houyhnhnm Press. But don't all rush out to buy it as it costs €300.

First out of the traps has been Terence Killeen who wrote a critical review in last Saturday's Irish Times, headed 'A flawed Finnegans Wake-up call' and declining to give Rose and O'Hanlon's edition a 'warm welcome'. In today's IT Bruce Arnold, who had championed the new edition of the Wake in the Indo, steps in to defend Rose and O'Hanlon (brothers apparently), describing Killeen's review as 'dismissive' and wondering why he had not travelled out to Strawberry Beds to talk things over with the two lads before publishing. Anthony Farrell of Houyhnhnm also weighs in, referring to Killeen's 'remarkable begrudgery' in the face of the 'finest feat of Irish textual scholarship of recent decades'.

Keen observers of the Joycean scene are waiting with bated breaths to see what happens next. And oh yes, I must have another go at reading Finnegans Wake. :confused:
Anyone who thinks politics is vicious should try academia some time. Academic rows over texts and meanings and interpretations can be the worst of all - enless hairpulling and name-calling. They make rows in politics look like kiddies' tea-parties in comparison.
 
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The timing of this is nothing but a vicious, homophobic plot to prevent David Norris being elected president:cool:
 

captainwillard

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The timing of this is nothing but a vicious, homophobic plot to prevent David Norris being elected president:cool:
David Norris is a chancer who calls himself a Joycean scholar. He does not even have a PhD for goodness sake. How he ever got that job with a B.A is beyond me.
 

El Libre

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The timing of this is nothing but a vicious, homophobic plot to prevent David Norris being elected president:cool:
Speaking of whom, was Norris present at the launch of the Rose/O'Hanlon edition of Finnegans Wake by Finance Minister Lenihan in Dublin Castle last Thursday? The Irish Times report, not written by Terence Killeen, lists Seamus Deane, John Banville, Paul McGuinness and Robert Ballagh in attendance, but no leading Joyce Centre or academic Joycean heads. According to the current Phoenix, Danis Rose has a bit of a history with the National Library of Ireland, believing himself to have been blacklisted. It was Rose apparently who originally discovered the Finnegans Wake manuscript controversially sold to the National Library by a sometime state contract employee for a profit of €700,000 in 2005. But we have to be very careful what we say about this episode, as an unfortunate blogger who commented a little too freely had to agree to pay €100,000 in damages late last year.
 

TommyO'Brien

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David Norris is a chancer who calls himself a Joycean scholar. He does not even have a PhD for goodness sake. How he ever got that job with a B.A is beyond me.
Many academics in Ireland who were hired in the 1960s and 1970s didn't have PhDs. The number of PhDs awarded in Ireland was small and many Irish academics in that time were hired without PhDs. (There was not the same international study options there are now. Most academics of the period simply studied in Irish universities.) Another example was Professor Brian Farrell. The current Chancellor of the NUI, Maurice Manning, lectured for years without a PhD and only got his in recent years.

Calling Norris a chancer is garbage, but typical of the rubbish you post. The irony of the one main chancers on this site calling a respected academic a chancer is delicious.
 

captainwillard

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Many academics in Ireland who were hired in the 1960s and 1970s didn't have PhDs. The number of PhDs awarded in Ireland was small and many Irish academics in that time were hired without PhDs. (There was not the same international study options there are now. Most academics of the period simply studied in Irish universities.) Another example was Professor Brian Farrell. The current Chancellor of the NUI, Maurice Manning, lectured for years without a PhD and only got his in recent years.

Calling Norris a chancer is garbage, but typical of the rubbish you post. The irony of the one main chancers on this site calling a respected academic a chancer is delicious.
You cannot be serious. Check the credentials of most lecturers/professors in the TCD english department. Even in the mid seventies when I was 'dating' a TCD english grad, she would comment that she was more qualified than Norris. She had completed a M.A .
 
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You cannot be serious. Check the credentials of most lecturers/professors in the TCD english department. Even in the mid seventies when I was 'dating' a TCD english grad, she would comment that she was more qualified than Norris. She had completed a M.A .
Having an M.A. obviously establishes that one has a higher level formal qualification than a B.A. - but it certainly does not establish that somebody is better educated in the subject. Einstein published his Special Theory of Relativity when he held only a humble bachelors degree:cool:
 

TommyO'Brien

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You cannot be serious. Check the credentials of most lecturers/professors in the TCD english department. Even in the mid seventies when I was 'dating' a TCD english grad, she would comment that she was more qualified than Norris. She had completed a M.A .
I am totally serious. It is a fact. When I was in college in the 1980s many academics hadn't PhDs. It was the reason given for denying Brian Farrell the professorship in Politics in UCD when Conor Martin died in the early 1980s. The reason why so many people didn't have PhDs was simple. Ireland had far fewer academics and students in those days. The main entry to academic posts was through initially giving night classes in colleges, then on the basis of that practical experience people were hired to work in departments and never got around to completing further degrees. Over half the academics in one of the departments I studied with were sub-PhD level. The increase in international study, and the increase in numbers of universities, changed the number of PhDs.

Having MAs were meaningless because in many colleges MAs were and are bought as an upgrade of a BA.
 

captainwillard

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Having an M.A. obviously establishes that one has a higher level formal qualification than a B.A. - but it certainly does not establish that somebody is better educated in the subject. Einstein published his Special Theory of Relativity when he held only a humble bachelors degree:cool:
Academic qualifications matter in academic circles. That is just the way things are. What also matter is being published in eminent scholarly publications.


And David Norris has a B.A. I get amused at hearing him being described as a scholar. It reminds me of Jacinta. I wonder where she is now. Quite possibly a 55 year old woman with grandchildren.
 
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Academic qualifications matter in academic circles. That is just the way things are. What also matter is being published in eminent scholarly publications.


And David Norris has a B.A. I get amused at hearing him being described as a scholar. It reminds me of Jacinta. I wonder where she is now. Quite possibly a 55 year old woman with grandchildren.
But the fact that he has only a B.A. does not make him a "chancer" - as you described him - any more than Einstein was a "chancer"
 

captainwillard

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But the fact that he has only a B.A. does not make him a "chancer" - as you described him - any more than Einstein was a "chancer"
I think Einsteins special theory of relativity was a PhD dissertation. The fact is that Einstein became highly qualified. Norris has never elevated himself beyond lowly B.A.
 
D

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I think Einsteins special theory of relativity was a PhD dissertation. The fact is that Einstein became highly qualified. Norris has never elevated himself beyond lowly B.A.
It wasn't actually - his thesis was entitled "On a new determination of molecular dimensions". Nothing at all to do with Relativity! Who's the "chancer"?:rolleyes:
 

captainwillard

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It wasn't actually - his thesis was entitled "On a new determination of molecular dimensions". Nothing at all to do with Relativity! Who's the "chancer"?:rolleyes:
You know what? I could have googled it too. I have read that he was struggling with a PhD when he published special relativity. But the fact is he got his PhD and massive acclaim.

What has your mate Norris got but a lowly B.A? Scholar my hole.
 

TommyO'Brien

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Having an M.A. obviously establishes that one has a higher level formal qualification than a B.A. - but it certainly does not establish that somebody is better educated in the subject. Einstein published his Special Theory of Relativity when he held only a humble bachelors degree:cool:
MAs are not necessarily an earned higher level qualification. A lot of UK universities (and I think it used to be the case with Trinity - I am not sure if that still applies) treated MAs as simply an upgraded BA. Once you got a high BA you could pay something like £500 and have your BA upgraded to an MA. I remember being disgusted when I heard that. When I got a first class MA I discovered that my partner at the time also had an MA - they had bought it as an upgrade. I didn't know at the time some universities did that. I asked them how much work they had done to get the MA. They said it took a lot of writing - writing £420 on a cheque, travelling in to Trinity and giving it in. That was it. "So I wrote a friggin' thesis, and you wrote a cheque? FFS." The one good thing was finding that employers knew about Trinity having MAs for sale - alongwith with various Oxbridge colleges. So having a Trinity MA or one from certain Oxbridge colleges was completely worthless.

I don't know if Trinity still have MAs for sale. It was originally a tradition in the days when the sons of the gentry went to college and as Daddy would pay for anything, and the son had no particular academic interest, the colleges created these MAs as a source of income. They sounded particularly good for clergymen. So you find a lot of Anglican clergymen used MAs - they sounded good, but anyone in academia knew they were utterly worthless and bought.
 

new jewell

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Houyhnhnm Press,With a name like that they just had to get the job,dont you think.Now I'll hide under the stairs with my leaving cert.
 

Almanac

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When I got a first class MA I discovered that my partner at the time also had an MA - they had bought it as an upgrade.
What did you do your thesis on? What were your undergraduate final year subjects?
 


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