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Fintan O'Toole a Disgrace in IT Again


Vega1447

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
5,783
In his weekly column in IT darling of the liberals Fintan O'Toole has published yet another snide condescending article.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opi ... 26504.html

This time his scorn is directed at Coillte and the Government's refusal to accept EU grants for forestry - supposedly:
There are two probable answers. One is that the 100 per cent grant scheme delivers larger subsidies to farmers, with less need to justify spending. Since no one has to come up with the other 20 per cent of the cost, there's no need to ask about the long-term viability or sustainability of what's being done.
But the other reason is that the EU money would come with some strings attached. There would have to be proper standards of environmental management and accountability.
Who does this Dublin Southside theatre critic think he is?
Leave forestry to the farmers!
And grant allocation to FF!

OK code twinkle?
viewtopic.php?f=164&t=40256&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p1328356
 

Edo

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
3,052
I thought the article was spot on.

Serious questions have to be asked about whole point of Coilte and that whole thing will come to bite us in the ass as these forests are contributing to the degradation of watercourses right around the country.

Just another example of the short-term electoral cycle decison making that will be the ruination of this country.

An - oh yes - we cant blame the EU for this one - and also we are paying for the whole gig

Gives you some insight into how this country would be run if we were outside the EU - scary
 

smitchy2

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Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
1,817
I think there is several very good points raised in the article.
What is the actual reason for refusing such substantial EU funding and why is a state owned company claiming to be called private???
 

Vega1447

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
5,783
Edo said:
I thought the article was spot on.

Serious questions have to be asked about whole point of Coilte and that whole thing will come to bite us in the ass as these forests are contributing to the degradation of watercourses right around the country.

Just another example of the short-term electoral cycle decison making that will be the ruination of this country.

An - oh yes - we cant blame the EU for this one - and also we are paying for the whole gig

Gives you some insight into how this country would be run if we were outside the EU - scary
Couldn't agree more!
 

code twinkle

Active member
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
156
Vega1447 said:
In his weekly column in IT darling of the liberals Fintan O'Toole has published yet another snide condescending article.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opi ... 26504.html

This time his scorn is directed at Coillte and the Government's refusal to accept EU grants for forestry - supposedly:
There are two probable answers. One is that the 100 per cent grant scheme delivers larger subsidies to farmers, with less need to justify spending. Since no one has to come up with the other 20 per cent of the cost, there's no need to ask about the long-term viability or sustainability of what's being done.
But the other reason is that the EU money would come with some strings attached. There would have to be proper standards of environmental management and accountability.
Who does this Dublin Southside theatre critic think he is?
Leave forestry to the farmers!
And grant allocation to FF!

OK code twinkle?
viewtopic.php?f=164&t=40256&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p1328356
oi you leave me alone! the summers over and i've no time to be defending my honour properly on t'interweb! hell i haven't even had time to read the paper today so i can't tell if you slagging me or you supporting me - i'd like to assume the latter. i'll be back later to sort ya out :)
 

Vega1447

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
5,783
code twinkle said:
oi you leave me alone! the summers over and i've no time to be defending my honour properly on t'interweb! hell i haven't even had time to read the paper today so i can't tell if you slagging me or you supporting me - i'd like to assume the latter. i'll be back later to sort ya out :)
I'll be right here
|
|
|
V
.
 

Van Damme

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
61
Edo said:
I thought the article was spot on.

Serious questions have to be asked about whole point of Coilte and that whole thing will come to bite us in the ass as these forests are contributing to the degradation of watercourses right around the country.

Just another example of the short-term electoral cycle decison making that will be the ruination of this country.

An - oh yes - we cant blame the EU for this one - and also we are paying for the whole gig

Gives you some insight into how this country would be run if we were outside the EU - scary
I find that argument used by the pro-lisbon people hilarious.

We have to vote for with the EU on everything to save ourselves from Fianna Fail! In fact the FFers even tried to justify voting for lisbon on the basis that they were so incompetent and they needed the EU to manage them.
 

talkies

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
327
Vega1447 said:
Leave forestry to the farmers!
And grant allocation to FF!
Are you being sarcastic?

This is a very interesting article with questions that need to be answered.

This is not questioning grant allocation it is questioning why available grants were overlooked.

If the Fintan O'Toole is wrong can you offer your own opinion as to why this is has happened.
 

Vega1447

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
5,783
talkies said:
Vega1447 said:
Leave forestry to the farmers!
And grant allocation to FF!
Are you being sarcastic?
No - ironic (though I may have slipped from irony into sarcasm without noticing.. :) )

This is a very interesting article with questions that need to be answered.

This is not questioning grant allocation it is questioning why available grants were overlooked.

If the Fintan O'Toole is wrong can you offer your own opinion as to why this is has happened.
Tragically (the) leftie Lisbon-loving cappuchino-drinking Fintan O'Toole is right....
My opinion - FF scumbags and thieves are at it again.
 

jerryp

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
95
I think vega1447 does irony very well ! That's a very perceptive article, up to FO'T's usual standards.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
19,084
Yep, on the button. The consequences for biodiversity are enormous when there is an overwhelming reliance upon non-native conifers, the Sitka in particular. Conifers are great for growing on poor-nutrient soil with litttle maintenance, hence the large-scale use of mountainsides to boost the forestry cover figures. But they are poor in terms of the range of wildlife that depends upon them compared with native broadleafs. The number of species of insect that depends on a Sitka is many times smaller than, say, a native Beech. The number of birds and other creatures depending on those insects for food, leaving aside the berries and pollen, is thus reduced. If conifers should be planted, the native Scots Pine should be more prevalent, but native broadleaf forestry must be increased. The campaign for the Sessile Oak and the Arbutus Unedo (one of extremely few plant species native to Ireland but not to Britain) starts here...
 

yehbut_nobut

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
523
The Strawberry Tree is a native of Ireland? :shock: and there's me thinking it was a fierce exotic looking yoke.

 
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
19,084
yehbut_nobut said:
The Strawberry Tree is a native of Ireland? :shock: and there's me thinking it was a fierce exotic looking yoke.

It is indeed, pollen from 4,000 years ago exists. It is not known whether it came here up the West Coast of Europe before the land link was broken, or whether it survived the Ice Age, or, my theory, it was brought here by the first settlers in Ireland after the Ice Age from the Basque area (it has been considered a plant of some kind of cultural importance in Spain, it is on the coat of arms of Madrid). The last native clusters are in Killarney (hence the name 'Killarney Strawberry Tree') and at Slish Wood, Lough Gill, Sligo (where, coincidentally, my Grandfather was involved as part of an IRA ambush back in the day). I have one planted in my back garden...
 

CitiZenJon

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
10
Website
citizenjon2008dublincastle.wordpress.com
Gosh-darned tree-huggers ;)
Good article by Fintan
I am disturbed by Coilte's selling off of our forestry lands to private developers.
Govt would sell the shirt off our backs if they could,
I wonder what percentage of Ireland's natural resources now reside in the portfolios of private companies.
 

code twinkle

Active member
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
156
OK I'm back - and it appears to me that the F.O'T's article raises interesting and valid points in a well-written column that is easy to understand and difficult to rebut. This in turn appears to be an indication that the man is not stupid nor perpetually misguided and to my own personal relief has even managed to keep his latent class issues out of his discussion on the forestry sector.

On the grounds of all of the above therefore, I will, for you Vega, refute my (entirely unrelated) arguments regarding a previous article he wrote with which I did not agree...

Oh no wait...I don't...coz that would be illogical and offensive to my (admittedly limited) intellectual capabilities! Sorry!*

*But I will give you your 'substantial' point - I admit F'O'T isn't always wrong :)
 

eyeSpy

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
2,550
Vega1447 said:
In his weekly column in IT darling of the liberals Fintan O'Toole has published yet another snide condescending article.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opi ... 26504.html

This time his scorn is directed at Coillte and the Government's refusal to accept EU grants for forestry - supposedly:
There are two probable answers. One is that the 100 per cent grant scheme delivers larger subsidies to farmers, with less need to justify spending. Since no one has to come up with the other 20 per cent of the cost, there's no need to ask about the long-term viability or sustainability of what's being done.
But the other reason is that the EU money would come with some strings attached. There would have to be proper standards of environmental management and accountability.
Who does this Dublin Southside theatre critic think he is?
Leave forestry to the farmers!
And grant allocation to FF!

OK code twinkle?
viewtopic.php?f=164&t=40256&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p1328356
a good article i thought. i spend a lot of time in Coillte operated wood chip plantations (the wood is not of sufficient quality for construction) and let me tell you they are wild life deserts.

one action we could all take is to plant native trees ourselves in these forests. Coillte cant cut them down and must work around them when harvesting from what i see in the aftermath of their blanket removal of the timber.
 

Oppenheimer

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Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
1,461
eyeSpy said:
a good article i thought. i spend a lot of time in Coillte operated wood chip plantations (the wood is not of sufficient quality for construction) and let me tell you they are wild life deserts.

one action we could all take is to plant native trees ourselves in these forests. Coillte cant cut them down and must work around them when harvesting from what i see in the aftermath of their blanket removal of the timber.
Good point, will bring a few ash to Djouce woods this very weekend - although if the article is to be believed and the dropping of the grants was to avoid being involved in a more open and transparent system, I would not be surprised if anything planted did not get a whack, ;) ;) , nudge, nudge of a digger or some other tool by Coillte!
 

McDave

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Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
13,557
How come?

Refusing EU loot isn't new to our addled, strategy-averse, short-termist national policy-makers. Remember O'Rourke flushing £200m LUAS funding down the toilet while she shilly-shallied over a bigger Metro train set?
 

Vega1447

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
5,783
code twinkle said:
OK I'm back - and it appears to me that the F.O'T's article raises interesting and valid points in a well-written column that is easy to understand and difficult to rebut. This in turn appears to be an indication that the man is not stupid nor perpetually misguided and to my own personal relief has even managed to keep his latent class issues out of his discussion on the forestry sector.

On the grounds of all of the above therefore, I will, for you Vega, refute my (entirely unrelated) arguments regarding a previous article he wrote with which I did not agree...

Oh no wait...I don't...coz that would be illogical and offensive to my (admittedly limited) intellectual capabilities! Sorry!*

*But I will give you your 'substantial' point - I admit F'O'T isn't always wrong :)
Thanks Code Twinkle...
And I will concede that I am not always wrong... No, wait that's not what I meant... subsides into mumbling....
 
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