Flanagan: FG TDs should 'express their concerns' on Ross bill

Dame_Enda

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Justice Minister Charlie Flanagan has asked FG TDs to express their concerns about the Judicial Appointments Bill, under which a judicial apppointments board with a lay majority would recommend judicial appointments. The Chief Justice Peter Kelly and former AGs including Michael McDowell are opposed to the bill.

This is unfortunate timing coming after the Maire Whelan controversy showed that reform is urgently needed to get politics out of judicial appointments.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/flanagan-encourages-fg-tds-to-speak-out-on-shane-ross-bill-1.3134424#.WVE6AdeMXhk.twitter

Write to your FG TDs to support the Bill. The present system has woefully failed victims of crime, with criminals with hundreds of convictions constantly in the news.
 
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Mushroom

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This is unfortunate timing coming after the Maire Whelan controversy showed that reform is urgently needed to get politics out of judicial appointments.
Your logic being:

"Something needs to be done.

Shane Ross's deeply flawed Bill is something,

So let's do it."
 

Dame_Enda

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Your logic being:

"Something needs to be done.

Shane Ross's deeply flawed Bill is something,

So let's do it."
Well it cant be worse than what we have now with people with hundreds of prior convictions being let loose to do it again. We need greater lay input into judicial appointments. Not just input from those who profit from the status quo.

We need to Drain the Bog.
 

Mushroom

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Well it cant be worse than what we have now with people with hundreds of prior convictions being let loose to do it again. We need greater lay input into judicial appointments. Not just input from those who profit from the status quo.

We need to Drain the Bog.
Should lay people also decide which cardiac surgeons should be appointed to Public Hospitals?
 

borntorum

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Well it cant be worse than what we have now with people with hundreds of prior convictions being let loose to do it again. We need greater lay input into judicial appointments. Not just input from those who profit from the status quo.

We need to Drain the Bog.
Can you identify one judgment of the Superior Courts where the party political bias of the judge was evident?
 

Dame_Enda

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Should lay people also decide which cardiac surgeons should be appointed to Public Hospitals?
Not the same. A doctors field of expertise may or may not make individual citizens within the remit of mnedical decisions by a doctor. But the judiciary has jurisdiction over us all.
 

Dame_Enda

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Can you identify one judgment of the Superior Courts where the party political bias of the judge was evident?
Its not so much party-political bias, but rather a liberal bias on sentencing - especially in the bankers trials.

Also in the earlier thread on competitive vs supportive society I pointed to the barriers to entry in the professions and this clearly is one.
 

borntorum

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As I just posted over on the Whelan thread, this could bring down the government.

Ross can't realistically back down, and if he were to resign presumably Halligan would follow.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Should lay people also decide which cardiac surgeons should be appointed to Public Hospitals?
They already do - the HSE management is 75%+ non-medically trained.

The justice system is a complete mess and it's that way by design - the whole incestuous circle jerk relationship between the cops, judges and politicians is very damaging for our country and should have been one of the last government's priorities, instead they pissed away the opportunity and Kenny ended a very mediocre career on a low - proving yet again that cops, judges and politicians can't be trusted.
 

Mushroom

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Not the same. A doctors field of expertise may or may not make individual citizens within the remit of mnedical decisions by a doctor. But the judiciary has jurisdiction over us all.
You are, one assumes, aware that the public elect our TDs?

Given what they elect to the Dáil, what reason have you for thinking that they'll make a decent fist of selecting judges?
 

Dame_Enda

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This may be an attempt by the Establishment wing of FG to wrest back control of FG from Leo by creating a second judicial related controversy after the Whelan controversy.

Like Trump, Leo is finding that draining the Bog brings out those who have made it their home.
 

borntorum

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Its not so much party-political bias, but rather a liberal bias on sentencing - especially in the bankers trials.
Even if we were to accept your claim, how would this Bill change anything?

If anything, judges nominated by a committee of right-on worthies are likely to be even more politically correct.
 

SuirView

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This can only be good for FF.
 

Dame_Enda

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You are, one assumes, aware that the public elect our TDs?

Given what they elect to the Dáil, what reason have you for thinking that they'll make a decent fist of selecting judges?
The proposal would not make TDs the sole deciders on the judiciary. The advisory board would have lay - not necessarily political - representation.
 

Mushroom

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They already do - the HSE management is 75%+ non-medically trained.
I couldn't give a tinker's curse if 200% of HSE management was made up of water diviners.

Fact is that the majority of the interview Board for Consultant positions in Public Hospitals is made up mainly of medical experts. The Chair is non-medical and there may also be a token woman to please the snowflakes, but the decision is made by medical experts, not by paperkeepers from the HSE.
 
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wombat

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Should lay people also decide which cardiac surgeons should be appointed to Public Hospitals?
That would be silly but all the new committee can do is recommend a shortlist to govt.
 

Mushroom

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The proposal would not make TDs the sole deciders on the judiciary. The advisory board would have lay - not necessarily political - representation.
Please try again - because I don't think that you understood what I asked you.
 

sadmal

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Should lay people also decide which cardiac surgeons should be appointed to Public Hospitals?
Do you mean that to suggest cardiac surgeons already decide on the appointments of other cardiac surgeons in public hospitals?

No wonder the health service is so bad when doctors appoint doctors, nurses appoint nurses, and admin staff appoint other admin staff.
 

Dame_Enda

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This is how the Establishment keep the rest of us down by appointing the ruling families to stuff and keeping out people with different perspectives.
 

sadmal

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Can you identify one judgment of the Superior Courts where the party political bias of the judge was evident?
According to one Sunday paper yesterday, Sindo or Sunday times, one third of judges appointed have direct political ties with political parties, ie were members or former members or are related to politicians.

The other two thirds were appointed for political reasons by politicians.
 


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