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Gin Soaked

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Apr 25, 2016
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Don't know what town or village u are on about, in our small town, we have all of them except the dentist but their is 5 or 6 in the next town which is 15 minutes away. I know a women from Kildare but worked for years in Dublin, who married a local fell. When they moved down she did not know what to do in the evenings, in Dublin it would take a couple of hours to get home, down here she was home in 15 to 20 minutes.
Just popped up to a big box retailer. Took 15 mins to get there, as does most stuff in suburbia. But sometimes it takes 30 mins or longer, and we are in smaller houses.

I get the small village near towns stuff.
 

joe sod

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Aug 31, 2005
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I see google have decided not to go ahead with their plan to lease a large office block in the docklands which would have accommodated 2000 workers. The question is where will those 2000 workers be located, will they even be located in Ireland? maybe not. Alot of jobs that service those offices are also now lost. Of course working from home might be great superficially but what if that home turns out to be in India or Brazil and not in Ireland
 

Buchaill Dana

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Rural communities won't win here. Towns will. People who don't need to be in the office may leave the suburbs for towns within an hour of Dublin. Still have the shops, pubs, restaurants and whatnot at a more affordable pace. But you won't see tens of thousands going to villages in the whest.
 

Buchaill Dana

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I see google have decided not to go ahead with their plan to lease a large office block in the docklands which would have accommodated 2000 workers. The question is where will those 2000 workers be located, will they even be located in Ireland? maybe not. Alot of jobs that service those offices are also now lost. Of course working from home might be great superficially but what if that home turns out to be in India or Brazil and not in Ireland
No. Remote working was always being pushed, covid accelerated it.

That office could accomodate 2,000, but its likely that was 5,000 based in thar office once or twice a week. Now the plan is not in the office as much and use the space they already have.

I think there are tax and work permit reasons to not allow your habitual residence be overseas. Still need a PPS number and Irish bank account.
 

joe sod

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I think there are tax and work permit reasons to not allow your habitual residence be overseas. Still need a PPS number and Irish bank account.
but when you break the link with a specific location like dublin doing specific tasks that has a dedicated workforce to everyone working from home then you have essentially broken that workforce from its dublin centre and consequently Ireland. How can irish immigration check whether some guy in brazil is actually working on a project that would be part of dublins remit. Its very easy to muddy the waters especially when google isn't an irish company you just use technical jargon to obfuscate.
 

Buchaill Dana

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but when you break the link with a specific location like dublin doing specific tasks that has a dedicated workforce to everyone working from home then you have essentially broken that workforce from its dublin centre and consequently Ireland. How can irish immigration check whether some guy in brazil is actually working on a project that would be part of dublins remit. Its very easy to muddy the waters especially when google isn't an irish company you just use technical jargon to obfuscate.
Not in Googles interest to risk tax breaks by having staff legally in Ireland but working abroad. Yes, staff can go home and work from there on occasion, but if the base themselves in India they will find themselves on Indian wages. You check by their VPN.
 

Watcher2

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The work from home crew will not act the way they do in the office, so the OP contention that coffe shops and sandwich shops will thrive in the countryside is fallacious.
 

Ardillaun

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Rural communities won't win here. Towns will. People who don't need to be in the office may leave the suburbs for towns within an hour of Dublin. Still have the shops, pubs, restaurants and whatnot at a more affordable pace. But you won't see tens of thousands going to villages in the whest.
I imagine Leinster towns will benefit. If you only have to turn up at the actual office once or twice a week you’ll be able to tolerate a longer commute. Some of these places will need to jazz up their amenities, though, and consider the needs of the new arrivals.
 

Gin Soaked

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The work from home crew will not act the way they do in the office, so the OP contention that coffe shops and sandwich shops will thrive in the countryside is fallacious.
Yep. 6 months into this WFH and not once have I gone out for coffee or a sandwich.

I make coffee and eat whatever is in the fridge and can be cooked in 5 mins.
 

Marcos the black

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This just in : commuting to cities and even living in them is officially unmasked as the worst possible work life combination.

Where the money is, is no longer in the city centres where supposedly the high fliers work, as they will soon be working from home : lawyers, software developers, sales people, accountants, consultants, you name it. If you have a job that pays well chances are you can deliver it over the internet. If you are a lowly paid urchin, chances are you are chained to a geo-located service job. Those toilets won't get cleaned over zoom, and pub patrons can't pinch your buttocks on the other side of a Teams invite.

But if you sit at a desk, you are overwhelmingly there for presenteeism reasons these days, as almost everything you do is over email or calls. And if you travel for work overseas (and you'll be doing less of that) even less reason to have to come into the office.

So, the money is going to migrate, and migrate to rural areas. Families will choose Fenit over Finglas (well, who wouldn't), or PhucksRuck, the vile planning excrescence that is the Dunkettle roundabout at 830 AM will be recalled to memory in the same way that Industrial Revolution smog in the North of England is now seen as the worst symptom of socially irresponsible capitalism.

What's happening in Ireland right now? Rich folks are eyeing up properties located ANYWHERE; anywhere, that is, that there is a 50Mb+ internet connection. The eir optic fibre rollout will be the new Luas tramline in terms of indicating where people will want to live and how real estate prices will move. Located near a data point? That's another 50 to 100 grand value to your home. Because you can save 5-10 grand a year (AFTER TAX) in commuting and eating out, your stress levels will diminish and you'll be more productive. And you'll start working out more often, and then sooner or later, start looking for restaurants, cafes and other lifestyle elements you felt only the city could provide.

Here's where you decide to invest :

Find a village of between 500-1000 people. There are probably NO restaurants, cafes or gyms. There are DEFINITELY boarded up shops on the main street. There are primary schools looking for children, there is a HUGE GAA pitch. Parking is NOT a problem. Is there a fast fibre connection? Then get a lease on a shop and find an Asian chef, a qualified barista, or a personal trainer, assuming you are not one already and start up.

Here are services the refugees will want :

Coworking spaces
Tuition services for children of all ages, including university placement consulting
Quality Asian and Mediterranean food
Aussie style fusion bistros
Cali-style coffee houses
Fitness classes
Excellent pubs
Bikes and other sports gear and wear
Open air markets with craft foods, beers and clothing
Informal eateries like chippers and takeaways
Arts and theatre

A gold rush is about to begin, buy property, no matter what shape it's in, as sites and planning permission will become stratospherically sought after. Without a connection to a local area, you will need a tumbledown shack to add to / improve to have the house of your dreams looking out on to a vast valley, or scenic lake, while having conference calls with Palo Alto, London and Singapore.

A golden age for rural Ireland will begin, and those with the money are already moving.
I agree wholeheartedly with all the above the only problem is that rural Ireland could also be rural Spain, Poland or Bulgaria.... Why pay Irish salaries when your Polish developer could be in Poznan instead of Portlaoise?
 

joe sod

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I agree wholeheartedly with all the above the only problem is that rural Ireland could also be rural Spain, Poland or Bulgaria.... Why pay Irish salaries when your Polish developer could be in Poznan instead of Portlaoise?
Thats the bit that the WFH aficionados dont want to get or ignore. Ireland was the big beneficiary of the mobility of american technology in the last 2 decades, the very convenient accounting jargon of "intellectual property" and that this became a technique to move the creation of technology from the US to Ireland, so the Irish subsidiary became the owner of this capital even though it had little or no involvement in its creation.
With regard to google many of its employees were international predominately to service googles customer base in their own countries but they were based in Dublin, therefore Dublin at least benefitted from their spending power in Dublin. Now most of those employees are gone back to their own countries and are WFH but in Brazil, Portugal, Greece etc but not in Ballydehob. We are especially vulnerable as most of our industrial base is not Irish , many of its employees are also not Irish, Be careful what you wish for
 

GrimReefer

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Thats the bit that the WFH aficionados dont want to get or ignore. Ireland was the big beneficiary of the mobility of american technology in the last 2 decades, the very convenient accounting jargon of "intellectual property" and that this became a technique to move the creation of technology from the US to Ireland, so the Irish subsidiary became the owner of this capital even though it had little or no involvement in its creation.
With regard to google many of its employees were international predominately to service googles customer base in their own countries but they were based in Dublin, therefore Dublin at least benefitted from their spending power in Dublin. Now most of those employees are gone back to their own countries and are WFH but in Brazil, Portugal, Greece etc but not in Ballydehob. We are especially vulnerable as most of our industrial base is not Irish , many of its employees are also not Irish, Be careful what you wish for
It sure is true. And it's a train coming down that track. What's keeping the US companies in Ireland includes, but is not restricted to :

  • tax : it hasn't gone away you know. It may do, but if you want to ride that train you better hire local (so workers can pay 55% above the level required to rent a flat and eat in Dublin, while the tech emperors avoid almost all of it)
  • culture : as long as we are thought of as innately American and understandable, Americans will like working with and through Irish colleagues.

A few years back, I read an article in the NYT about parts of American that don't cheer the H1B visa. By and large these were residents of "flyover" states, that weren't benefitting from Silicon Valley's HR model, while Valley real estate made even MIT grads scrimp and save to live near their dream employer.

Notably, the NYT reported on the H1B visa in 2015 in the following finger-wagging terms casting the visas in a poor light


that magically changed to defence of the visa when Donald Trump put them in his sights


American Protectionism doesn't have to be hard any longer, it can be as simple as making opportunities more available to Americans through remote working. It needs to be coupled with remote education and upskilling, assessment and feedback, however there's no reason to believe that America can't hire internally better and better through remote working. It can also circumvent subsidies to countries where it hires people by hiring them directly, and remotely, an interesting flavour of the gig economy.

Singapore visa protectionism increased hugely over the last decade as starting salaries for specific worker visas continuously increased to disincentivise firms from hiring cheaper staff from overseas to perform high value add work in Singapore. Basically, if you really want this person, you have to pay a pretty high salary, along with other restrictions in parallel.
 

Buchaill Dana

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I agree wholeheartedly with all the above the only problem is that rural Ireland could also be rural Spain, Poland or Bulgaria.... Why pay Irish salaries when your Polish developer could be in Poznan instead of Portlaoise?
Tax.
 

GrimReefer

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Jan 2, 2013
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Yep. 6 months into this WFH and not once have I gone out for coffee or a sandwich.

I make coffee and eat whatever is in the fridge and can be cooked in 5 mins.
No doubt. You are, nonetheless, a sample size of one.

Even country bumpkin yokels like myself dig having a nice place in the village to take a break and have a chat.

Having good spots available is a strong temptation, after work even more so
 

Sidewindered

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Jul 4, 2020
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The big push towards WFH back in March/April has already largely dissipated in NZ, even with the second outbreak of Covid.

Management make all the right noises about being supportive of remote working but when it comes right down to it they are fiercely resistant of letting go of their "bums on seats" mentality, and even proven high-performers get overly-micromanaged to make sure they really are "working from home" and not goofing off.

I get that some staff need to be managed closely (even when they are in the office) but the management mentality for some reason refuses to go with making a distinction. "I know I can trust X to get the job done but that creates an intolerable point of difference between her and Y who is an idiot who needs close supervision at all times, which I cannot handle dealing with, so everyone gets treated like Y"

Maybe we should start by putting the management class on permanent WFH duties :ROFLMAO:
 

joe sod

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The big push towards WFH back in March/April has already largely dissipated in NZ, even with the second outbreak of Covid.
WFH was really only suitable for highly skilled and highly motivated staff that did not have to interact that much with colleagues or customers. The coronavirus forced a situation on employers where all office based staff were made to WFH. However many of those staff dont really have any skills for this and their jobs involved interaction with other office staff or in the organisation of people in offices for example HR, what role does HR have now when most of the staff are at home. I think there are alot of staff that are WFH on paper but don't have a defined roll now and have basically little productive work to do. The longer this goes on the more of those workers that are in jeopardy and that doesn't even include the service workers like cleaners, canteen staff etc. I think it is stupid for the government to be encouraging this with tax breaks etc, its like they are only doing it for PR reasons and to be seen to be right on and saying the same stuff as Big Tech.
 

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