Fly Tipping

Moan

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Feb 19, 2009
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First post, so here it goes.

Just heard about Fly Tipping on the last word, and I have to say, we do have a massive problem. On the N2 alone last night I counted 18 refuse sacks between the M50 and Ashbourne. And this apart from the general litter.

I cycle a lot on rural roads and so have time to see places where rubbish is hidden.

So what can be done. There was talks about a compulsory tax on bin charges.

Now I think anything should be cost neutral. So if you take it that every home needs to dispose of waste, then they need to pay for it.

So we need a system where its possible for the state to verify that each home is disposing of waste legally. This is complicated by the different types of collection such a council, private, bin tags etc.

Perhap a central database where waste operators log each home that has paid for their waste.
Then a seperate system where bin tags have a seperate peel off that they are required to keep for possible inspection.

This is a bit nanny state, but I dont think we can rely on all the people do the right thing.
 


Ecoguy

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Good post, Huge problem too around the Curragh near where i live and on the M7 plus the approach roads to Kildare town. I'd love to be a litter warden(no where near enough of these!!) and catch these scumbags in the act. More litter wardens would easily pay for themselves given the scale of this problem countrywide.

The worst type of fly tipping though is the morons who dump into rivers and on beachs. That kind of thing kills wildlife directly through choking and contamination, particualary the plastic elements. No wonder the worlds oceans now have 40 thousand separate pieces of waste plastic per square kilometer of water:mad:
 

eamo

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First post, so here it goes.

Just heard about Fly Tipping on the last word, and I have to say, we do have a massive problem. On the N2 alone last night I counted 18 refuse sacks between the M50 and Ashbourne. And this apart from the general litter.

I cycle a lot on rural roads and so have time to see places where rubbish is hidden.

So what can be done. There was talks about a compulsory tax on bin charges.

Now I think anything should be cost neutral. So if you take it that every home needs to dispose of waste, then they need to pay for it.

So we need a system where its possible for the state to verify that each home is disposing of waste legally. This is complicated by the different types of collection such a council, private, bin tags etc.

Perhap a central database where waste operators log each home that has paid for their waste.
Then a seperate system where bin tags have a seperate peel off that they are required to keep for possible inspection.

This is a bit nanny state, but I dont think we can rely on all the people do the right thing.
Welcome Moan, to the mysterious and sometimes bizarre world of Politics.ie
The problem of fly tipping was forecast to get worse when the bin tax was introduced. That's not to excuse it of course.
 
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5intheface

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and can be dangerous to livestock

 

jayblue

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If the revenue commissioners names tax defaulters, then it is time for the various local authorities in the country to name those guilty of fly tipping if they can be identified
 

mmclo

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If the revenue commissioners names tax defaulters, then it is time for the various local authorities in the country to name those guilty of fly tipping if they can be identified
They do, it featured on Talk to Joe
 

cyberianpan

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Simple solution:

€10,000 fine for fly tipping

Put a few number plate cameras on the roads near where fly tipping occurs

Investigate the new rubbish, you'll find bills in it, correlate the billing address to the number plates that went by

That should be an adequate standard of proof


cYp
 
B

birthday

What are the fines and penalties?
What are the chances of getting caught, realistically?
An alternative to fly tipping is backyard burning which I understand is very prevalent and releases high quantities of dioxins from the burning of plastics at low temperatures.

From direct personal experience I can state that my local authoritity did not want to know when they are contacted about backyard burning. I would suggest employing ex-Latvian army litter wardens to bring about a culture change on fly tipping and backyard burning.
 

Victor Meldrew

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Welcome Moan,

I passed a load of clothes strewn down a lane on the N11 just south of Foxrock church today, so it's not just a rural / deprived area issue.

Litter annoys the hell out of me. I am very careful about how I dispose of stuff.

If ever there was a crime that merits chain-gangs and public naming, this is it.

Not sure how you make it socially unacceptable as the perpetrators are basically sociopaths.
 

thunderball

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Feb 1, 2009
Messages
34
What we need is a monthly collection that deals with large objects like sofas, beds etc put a separate charge on this. That would stop a lot of the fly tipping.
 

jayblue

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we already have this, people buy a the relevant number of tags, leave the stuff in their gardens and the council will collect the stuff, people are just tight fisted gits thats all
 

orbit

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Simple solution:

€10,000 fine for fly tipping

Put a few number plate cameras on the roads near where fly tipping occurs

Investigate the new rubbish, you'll find bills in it, correlate the billing address to the number plates that went by

That should be an adequate standard of proof
I think LA's already check this stuff out. The problem is endemic and generally speaking, (in my experience) it's not identifiable rubbish that gets dumped. It tends to be bulky stuff like general household junk.

I absolutely abhor people who fly-tip like this, but there is a problem in some areas with people's ability to legally get rid of junk. In Fingal for example, it's no longer possible to bring general loads of junk to the landfill. They only accept specific materials. So, what the hell are people supposed to do with other stuff?
 

thunderball

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we already have this, people buy a the relevant number of tags, leave the stuff in their gardens and the council will collect the stuff, people are just tight fisted gits thats all
How much does it cost to throw out a couch, TV and a fridge e.g I know a fridge can be brought to a recyle centre. TV's are a speciality for the flytippers
 

GJG

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If the revenue commissioners names tax defaulters, then it is time for the various local authorities in the country to name those guilty of fly tipping if they can be identified
Feck that, I would make mandatory sentences for all types of littering include clearing up tip sites. I'm thinking of a Saturday litterpicking for dropping a cigarette butt or crisp packet, right up to a couple of thousand hours for organised commercial dumping.

This should be on top of other fines or imprisonment, and would be court-ordered, and the supervising authority would report back to the court, so non-compliance would earn you a prison sentence for contempt of court.
 

Tressell

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Simple solution:

€10,000 fine for fly tipping

Put a few number plate cameras on the roads near where fly tipping occurs

Investigate the new rubbish, you'll find bills in it, correlate the billing address to the number plates that went by

That should be an adequate standard of proof


cYp
Oh if only it was that easy.
Firstly on the spot fine €150/ Max. on conviction €3000. €25 increase in fine when Gormley came to power. Shows his interest in environment.
Secondly, put fixed cameras in and you may catch one or two. Goes to court possibly and Judge normally fines €300-€500 on avg. Or more likely lets people off on probation act. Cost of court date normally more than judgement.
Very rarely do people leave evidence in waste from my experience in the past. A person could go 2 weeks or longer without finding evidence.

Chain gangs etc. Not allowed. We approached Probation Service and were advised against it. A little matter of insurance. In case the poor dears cut their hands or fell on the road.

Public shaming-Some LA do this however in Gombeen Ireland, a lot of Co.Cllrs, from all parties find it easier to get the fine voided for 'Poor Johnny as hes elderly', Mary as she's an unmarried mother or Jack as he is unemployed.

Those that litter, I've caught travellers, foreigners, landlords cleaning out their properties,
doctors, garda, state agencies. i.e Health Boards, An Post, builders, co.cllrs, and many many others. Some get fined, most are voided for all sorts of reasons and the poor are brought to court.Any journos looking for a good story could seek under FOI Act number and reasons for voiding fines. It would make a good story. I've personally brought boxes upon boxes away to storage units.

As for backyard burning, (a) there are no fines in place, (b) the person must be caught in the act and again as in all of the above the representations, time spent in serving summonses and the reluctance of the people to volunteer information just doesn't make it worthwhile.

And finally, Litter wardens are just tokens for LA. Not enough of them and those that do work normally end up delivering compost bins, putting traffic fines on cars(more money that way)or picking up bags from the side of a road.

I left because it was the most frustrating sector in L.A.-The Environment Dept.
 
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jayblue

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most stuff can be brought to your local bring centre foc, you will have to pay to get it collected from your front garden, it costs about €8 for a large kitchen appliance.
 

Tressell

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most stuff can be brought to your local bring centre foc, you will have to pay to get it collected from your front garden, it costs about €8 for a large kitchen appliance.
A lot of people don't, even if its free. Just look at those that dump outside CA centres.
 

Ah Well

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most stuff can be brought to your local bring centre foc, you will have to pay to get it collected from your front garden, it costs about €8 for a large kitchen appliance.
As I've speculated in a past thread I set up here -> http://www.politics.ie/environment/46513-environmental-step-backwards-more-rubbish-dumping-over-ditches.html the introduction of charges on the public to enter a recycling centre to use it may well increase the possibility of illegal dumping - perhaps some of this eyesore stuff is now occurring because rather than pay to use a recycling center to dispose of rubbish (and also pay again when in there to dispose of non recyclable refuse) ppl will just fire it over ditches
 

CookieMonster

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This came to mind...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSgMnfomnXg]YouTube - Tractor-Tipping[/ame]
 


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