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Foreign Funding For Irish Banks in 2008: 80% UK & 13% US Sourced, only 2% from Eurozone


YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Banking data for Ireland seen by "The Irish Times" indicates that direct euro zone lending to Irish banks was almost irrelevant to the bubble in Ireland. Sounds like Anglo the Musical needs to be rewritten.

"by mid-2008 the UK-sourced funding in Irish domestic banks was 80 per cent of the total. US-based funding accounted for 13 per cent in 2008, while 5 per cent came from off-shore funding, where the nationality of investor is not clear. Which leaves 2 per cent of total Irish bank funding directly from the euro zone."

Something we could already tell from simple observation in Ireland is now finally confirmed too by official data. Besides the Irish investors we are bailing out UK and US based depositors and bondholders in Irish banks. I'd like to see more of this data from the Irish Times.
 


shiel

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It is all over this forum that the Germans deliberately bankrupted this country by lending us a whole lot more than they should have.
 

Marvar88

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But, but Shane Ross and his fellow populist gobsh1tes keep saying that we bailed out German Banks.

It's all the Germans fault. Isn't that right?

In all seriousness the country that should be the most annoyed by the Eurozone problems are the Germans.

Lived prudently. Then have to bail out idioticly run countries and then get viciously blamed for telling them to live within their means.

I'd say the temptation for the Germans to tell them to all f##k off is unreal.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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But, but Shane Ross and his fellow populist gobsh1tes keep saying that we bailed out German Banks.

It's all the Germans fault. Isn't that right?

In all seriousness the country that should be the most annoyed by the Eurozone problems are the Germans.

Lived prudently. Then have to bail out idioticly run countries and then get viciously blamed for telling them to live within their means.

I'd say the temptation for the Germans to tell them to all f##k off is unreal.
but so far the blackmailing worked well, the Germans keep funding the bailout take on the Anglo debt for the next 40 years. It all goes to plan. Our bankers in the city will be delighted.
 

Volatire

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Banking data for Ireland seen by "The Irish Times" indicates that direct euro zone lending to Irish banks was almost irrelevant to the bubble in Ireland. Sounds like Anglo the Musical needs to be rewritten.

"by mid-2008 the UK-sourced funding in Irish domestic banks was 80 per cent of the total. US-based funding accounted for 13 per cent in 2008, while 5 per cent came from off-shore funding, where the nationality of investor is not clear. Which leaves 2 per cent of total Irish bank funding directly from the euro zone."

Something we could already tell from simple observation in Ireland is now finally confirmed too by official data. Besides the Irish investors we are bailing out UK and US based depositors and bondholders in Irish banks. I'd like to see more of this data from the Irish Times.
I see the PropagandaMinisterium is in overdrive.
 

Eire Nua

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in 2008 the bubble was well and truly burst.
all the german money was lent out on overvalued property at that late stage. also there was very little lending going on in 2008 so i am not surprised by the title of this thread.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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in 2008 the bubble was well and truly burst.
all the german money was lent out on overvalued property at that late stage. also there was very little lending going on in 2008 so i am not surprised by the title of this thread.
what ever was there in 2008 was guaranteed by FF and led to the fall of the state.
 

gerhard dengler

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Table A 4.2 shows the source of funding throughout the Covered Irish Banks, as supplied by the Irish Central Bank.
Central Bank of Ireland - Money and Banking

The liabilities tab on Table A 4.2 will show that funding from the Irish Residents, Eurozone and the Rest of the World.
€616 billion deposited in to the Irish (Covered) Banking system.

 

Volatire

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Utter drivel.

When an Irish bank issues a bond through a London broker-dealer, it shows up in the Irish CB data as a "rest of world" security, even when the buyer is a German pension fund.

The Irish central bank has never tracked beneficial ownership of Irish bank debt, for the obvious reason that it does not have the capacity to query foreign financial institutions about their holdings.

The Bank of International Settlements does that, and their dataset tells a very different story.
 

ibis

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in 2008 the bubble was well and truly burst.
all the german money was lent out on overvalued property at that late stage. also there was very little lending going on in 2008 so i am not surprised by the title of this thread.
The figures are available back to 2003. Same story - very little eurozone money, plenty of what is likely to be US and UK money. Interestingly, it appears some in the financial media view the US-Ireland connection as very strong:

In 2007 Ireland had significant cross border exposure to UK and US banks through derivatives and property products. As I warned in 2007, the real estate bubble in the the US/UK popped in 2008, sending pathogenic contagion straight through the Irish banking system. The entire banking system started collapsing. On February 15, 2008, Ireland took extraordinary measures (which we will explore in depth a little later on) to mitigate said collapse, measures that many a layperson would deem misleading, if not fraudulent. RBS (Royal Bank of Scotland, one of the largest financial institutions in the countries of Ireland and the UK) was effectively nationalized by the UK and a bad bank was formed to purchase bad debt/products from the Zombie Irish banks in exchange for government bonds, backed by a country that just simply couldn't afford it.

Following my warning in February of 2008, Lehman filed bankruptcy in September sending an additional set of contagion shock through Ireland and its banking system, causing Ireland to issues bonds and further indebt itself to save its Zombie banks – again! This time through blanket bank guarantees backed by the full faith of the government.

In September of 2010, a large swath of said government guarantees for the banks were about to expire. Reference this excerpt from the book “Zombie Banks: How Broken Banks and Debtor Nations Are Crippling the Global Economy”:

In September 2010, some of Ireland's government guarantees for bank debts were about to expire, which put U.S. Treasury officials on edge. If the guarantee wasn't renewed, the banks would likely default on their bonds, triggering the next event in line: a slew of credit default swap (CDS) contracts on Irish banks' debt. U.S. Treasury officials had reason to worry - the names backing those contracts were the largest U .S. banks, and they could end up paying billions in case of default. Any more weight on U.S. banks could be a tipping point to collapse. Treasury officials made inquiries to their counterparts at the Irish finance ministry asking about the course of action the country was planning to take and indicated their concern about possible default and its CDS repercussions. A year after having issued blanket guarantees on the banks' liabilities the Irish government once again didn't dare let the bank fail. Instead it ended up asking for financial assistance from the European Union (EU) and the International Monetary Fund (IIMF): the country had been pushed to the brink of collapse.
Are You About To Get Cyprus'd in Ireland? When A Single Word's Worth Billions Of Euros...

Can't vouch for the accuracy of that, but the source certainly feels he can, and it would help explain Geithner's intervention in the matter of burning senior bondholders.
 

ibis

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Utter drivel.

When an Irish bank issues a bond through a London broker-dealer, it shows up in the Irish CB data as a "rest of world" security, even when the buyer is a German pension fund.

The Irish central bank has never tracked beneficial ownership of Irish bank debt, for the obvious reason that it does not have the capacity to query foreign financial institutions about their holdings.

The Bank of International Settlements does that, and their dataset tells a very different story.
But the BIS don't distinguish between covered banks, domestic banks, and IFSC banks, which the Central Bank does. And when you compare the two datasets, you'll simply find that the vast amount of eurozone money indicated in the BIS stats is present in the CBI stats, but in the IFSC banks.

Which tells us, in turn, that the sort of misleading attribution of sources you're claiming happens, doesn't happen to any meaningful degree. If that's too complex a chain of thought for you, feel free to call me names again, but I'll help by drawing a simple picture:

SourceEZ money in domestic banksEZ money in IFSC banksEZ money in all Irish banks (IFSC & domestic)
BISdoesn't distinguishdoesn't distinguishLots
CBIlittleLotsLots

Simple enough logic, really.
 

gerhard dengler

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Utter drivel.

When an Irish bank issues a bond through a London broker-dealer, it shows up in the Irish CB data as a "rest of world" security, even when the buyer is a German pension fund.

The Irish central bank has never tracked beneficial ownership of Irish bank debt, for the obvious reason that it does not have the capacity to query foreign financial institutions about their holdings.

The Bank of International Settlements does that, and their dataset tells a very different story.
BIS figures shows that $563 billion of claims at 2008 Q3.

edit : ignore the above, I quoted the wrong figure.
 
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YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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The figures are available back to 2003. Same story - very little eurozone money, plenty of what is likely to be US and UK money. Interestingly, it appears some in the financial media view the US-Ireland connection as very strong:



Are You About To Get Cyprus'd in Ireland? When A Single Word's Worth Billions Of Euros...

Can't vouch for the accuracy of that, but the source certainly feels he can, and it would help explain Geithner's intervention in the matter of burning senior bondholders.
The amount of deposits of US corporation in Ireland is quite substantial. But though I am sure Geithner was keen to protect his banks his action at the time needs to be seen in context of British claims in Ireland as well. Alistair Darling made sure the city would be able to secure its booty.
 
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ibis

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BIS figures shows that $563 billion of claims at 2008 Q3.
Volatire is clinging to a way of saving the "it was the Germans" story, where he claims that the CBI figures are irrelevant because he believes (although hasn't shown) that when the CBI records money as "eurozone" it might really be from somewhere else. However, the CBI figures actually do show similar amounts of eurozone money to the BIS stats - but, unlike the BIS stats, they break theirs down by "covered banks" (ie bailed out), "domestic" (those doing business with the Irish economy), and "all banks based in Ireland".

That last dataset, which covers the same set of banks as the BIS data, has similar quantities of eurozone money to the BIS stats - but the other two don't. So there's plenty of eurozone money in "banks in Ireland", but not in the domestic or covered banks - it's in the IFSC.

Volatire is not happy to hear this.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Volatire is clinging to a way of saving the "it was the Germans" story, where he claims that the CBI figures are irrelevant because he believes (although hasn't shown) that when the CBI records money as "eurozone" it might really be from somewhere else. However, the CBI figures actually do show similar amounts of eurozone money to the BIS stats - but, unlike the BIS stats, they break theirs down by "covered banks" (ie bailed out), "domestic" (those doing business with the Irish economy), and "all banks based in Ireland".

That last dataset, which covers the same set of banks as the BIS data, has similar quantities of eurozone money to the BIS stats - but the other two don't. So there's plenty of eurozone money in "banks in Ireland", but not in the domestic or covered banks - it's in the IFSC.

Volatire is not happy to hear this.
have you looked at UK based bank exposure to Spain recently? Volatires beloved UK based banks are in for another painful rough ride.
 

mhagain

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What's particularly chilling is the extent to which some people would be delighted to see this country go even further down the tubes so long as it fuelled their overarching anti-EU agenda. This was obvious from well before the crash - anti-EU sentiments causing some to totally lose the run of themselves and lose their grip on reality. For these people fixing the problem doesn't even seem to be on the table; it's more about finding a suitable candidate to blame and throwing as much mud as possible.
 

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