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Former Polish President Lech Walesa's homophobic rant shocks many in Poland




Iphonista

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He's a man of his time and his society. The regime he fought against was at least as homophobic.
 

Paddy Sarkozy

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A courageous and important contribution from Walensa. Difficult to disagree with anything attributed to him in the article.
But no doubt over-sensitive homosex activists will make a big deal of it.
Not even a storm in a teacup.
 

florin

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Walesa's always been a holy Joe, this is no surprise. Just because he opposed communism doesn't make him perfect.

A courageous and important contribution from Walensa. Difficult to disagree with anything attributed to him in the article.
But no doubt over-sensitive homosex activists will make a big deal of it.
Not even a storm in a teacup.
"The 69-year-old said they did not deserve to be the front benches in parliament, and should instead be relegated to the back or “behind a wall”.

Really? Nothing to object to there? Maybe women could be sent to the back too. And non-Christians.
 

Boy M5

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Proof is ever was needed that Walesa is nothing more than an ultra conservative reactionary Right Wing bigoted nut.

Lech Walesa: activist, electrician, president, Nobel Peace Prize winner...homophobe? - Europe - World - The Independent
Who helped over throw Marxism Leninism therefore did more for human rights in Europe than virtually anyone else.
Don't forget that the catalyst for Solidarity and what brought Wałesa back to the Lenin Shipyard to lead the strike in 1980 was the sacking of a loyal Communist Anna Walentynowycz. So he's hardly a bigot. From what I can see he's criticised Gay people for pushing an agenda he dislikes, remember Polish national identity is / was wrapped up in Catholicism (and by extension its morals), he sees the gay agenda as a threat to Polish society. So, from what I can make out, he thinks gay people should be tolerated, not their agenda embraced or advanced. Most of us think differently now (in a more pro gay way) But a few years ago many wouldhavehad the same views as Wałesa. However, people develop, society develops. This is in a way is a growing process an accommodation process. If you asked Wałesa straight (not trying to be cute with words) if he thought it wrong that a gay fella, who outlived his partner of many years who lost the partner's pension, whether that was right I suspect you'd get a different answer at least on a personal level.
 
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Partizan

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Who helped over throw Marxism Leninism therefore did more for human rights in Europe than virtually anyone else.
Don't forget that the catalyst for Solidarity and what brought Wałesa back to the Lenin Shipyard to lead the strike in 1980 was the sacking of a loyal Communist Anna Walentynowycz. So he's hardly a bigot. From what I can see he's criticised Gay people for pushing an agenda he dislikes, remember Polish national identity is / was wrapped up in Catholicism (and by extension its morals), he sees the gay agenda as a threat to Polish society. So, from what I can make out, he thinks gay people should be tolerated, not their agenda embraced or advanced. Most of us think differently now. But a few years ago many wouldhavehad the same views as Wałesa.
and replaced with a reactionary Catholic state. Way to go.
 

florin

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Who helped over throw Marxism Leninism therefore did more for human rights in Europe than virtually anyone else.
It was overall economic failure that brought down communism, but the idea of one honest Christian worker challenging the communist state was a more romantic image I suppose.
From what I can see he's criticised Gay people for pushing an agenda he dislikes, remember Polish national identity is / was wrapped up in Catholicism
Only since independence (and only because almost all the Jews are gone)

So, from what I can make out, he thinks gay people should be tolerated, not their agenda embraced or advanced.
Tolerated is a curious word for it.
 

Northsideman

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and replaced with a reactionary Catholic state. Way to go.
I'd take the Poland of today over the communist era Soviet dictatorship any day.
 

Boy M5

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It was overall economic failure that brought down communism, but the idea of one honest Christian worker challenging the communist state was a more romantic image I suppose.

Only since independence (and only because almost all the Jews are gone)


Tolerated is a curious word for it.
I didn't say 1 worker but the revolution he led was the only succesful genuine workers' revolution anywhere. Also learn your history, as posted above, Wałesa led a strike to get a loyal communist reinstated.
Yes there is with hindsight an inevitability about Marxism Leninism's collapse. Not apparent the time though. An
ex Brit defence official of my acquaintance told me of a lunch with Casper Weinberger in 1985 when Weinberger toasted "Victory" against the Soviets. After that the Brits thought Cap the Knife was cracked. The Cold War was about containment not regime change.
 

Partizan

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I am still trying to come to terms that Mr. Walesa "is an icon of the democratic left".

:lol:

The hubris of these guys.
 

Partizan

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I didn't say 1 worker but the revolution he led was the only succesful genuine workers' revolution anywhere. Also learn your history, as posted above, Wałesa led a strike to get a loyal communist reinstated.
Yes there is with hindsight an inevitability about Marxism Leninism's collapse. Not apparent the time though. An
ex Brit defence official of my acquaintance told me of a lunch with Casper Weinberger in 1985 when Weinberger toasted "Victory" against the Soviets. After that the Brits thought Cap the Knife was cracked. The Cold War was about containment not regime change.
Was this the same "succesful genuine workers' revolution" (led by a reactionary Catholic) which was backed and aided by the Catholic Church which is resolutely anti-worker, by the Reagan Administration which incidentally around this time sacked tens of thousands of unionised air traffic controllers and Maggie Thatcher who also around this time led her own personal anti-union crusade against the Miners led by a genuine socialist Arthur Scargill.

Thats not my idea of a "succesful genuine workers' revolution"
 

shoneen

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I am still trying to come to terms that Mr. Walesa "is an icon of the democratic left".

:lol:

The hubris of these guys.
Ah yes. Mr. Walensa who who helped change world history. Hubris indeed. :roll:8
 

Boy M5

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I am still trying to come to terms that Mr. Walesa "is an icon of the democratic left".

:lol:

The hubris of these guys.
a) he was democratic
b) he was probably best described as from the centre.

However, he wasn't a "democratic centreist" rather a genuine working class revolutionary. Who succeeded.
 

White Horse

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Where is this supposed "homophobic" rant?

I read the article and there was only a comment about the dangers of minorities having undue influence.
 

Boy M5

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Was this the same "succesful genuine workers' revolution" (led by a reactionary Catholic) which was backed and aided by the Catholic Church which is resolutely anti-worker, by the Reagan Administration which incidentally around this time sacked tens of thousands of unionised air traffic controllers and Maggie Thatcher who also around this time led her own personal anti-union crusade against the Miners led by a genuine socialist Arthur Scargill.

Thats not my idea of a "succesful genuine workers' revolution"
Why can't devout Catholics lead revolutions? Ones that gave economic, social and political freedom?
The Catholic Church is resolutely against militant Marxism Leninism, not against workers. Quite the opposite. Regan's allies murdered Oscar Ramierez as he distributed the Blessed Sacrament.
The church is as much against consumerism and Godless Capitalism as it is against Marxism Leninism.

However, Wałesa led the only genuine successful workers' revolution, the catalyst for which was the sacking of a loyal Communist / Stakohvite worker.
 

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