France: Culturally closer to England, or Algeria?

G

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Recently whilst on holiday with a French friend in the medieval Spanish city of Toledo, a massive debate errupted between us on European culture, its history and its origins.

The debate was provoked by the city itself, one where Christendom and the Caliphate have both left indellible marks. At one point, my friend asserted that Morroco, Algeria and Turkey were 'European' and should be admitted to the European Union. I disagreed fundamentally.

Later, I stated baldly that France and England have much more in common with one another in every sense -- religiously, ethnically, historically, philosophically -- than France has with Algeria.

"Non!" was the reply. "You are wrong. Wrong!"

So, what are the view of the Politics.ie posters? Has France more in common with England with whom it shares the Roman legacy, Christian origins, the Norman link, the Plantagenets, the Crusades jointly fought, a linguistic relationship, medievalism, the Black Death, numerous wars, Teutonic parentage, the experience of empire, the Enlightenment and so forth, or with Algeria -- a country that in my view it shares comparitively little in common with.
 


Bobb

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asteroid said:
Recently whilst on holiday with a French friend in the medieval Spanish city of Toledo, a massive debate errupted between us on European culture, its history and its origins.

The debate was provoked by the city of Toledo, a city where Christendom and the Caliphate have both left indellible marks. At one point, my friend asserted that Morroco, Algeria and Turkey were 'European' and should be admitted to the European Union. I disagreed fundamentally.

Later, I stated baldly that France and England have much more in common with one another in every sense -- religiously, ethnically, historically, philosophically -- than France has with Algeria.

"Non!" was the reply. "You are wrong. Wrong!"

So, what are the view of the Politics.ie posters? Has France more in common with England with whom it shares the Roman legacy, Christian origins, the Norman link, the Plantagenets, the Crusades jointly fought, a linguistic relationship, medievalism, the Black Death, numerous wars, Teutonic parentage, the experience of empire, the Enlightenment and so forth, or with Algeria -- a country that in my view it shares comparitively little in common with.
France est colonie d'Afrique
 
G

Guest

Bobb said:
asteroid said:
Recently whilst on holiday with a French friend in the medieval Spanish city of Toledo, a massive debate errupted between us on European culture, its history and its origins.

The debate was provoked by the city of Toledo, a city where Christendom and the Caliphate have both left indellible marks. At one point, my friend asserted that Morroco, Algeria and Turkey were 'European' and should be admitted to the European Union. I disagreed fundamentally.

Later, I stated baldly that France and England have much more in common with one another in every sense -- religiously, ethnically, historically, philosophically -- than France has with Algeria.

"Non!" was the reply. "You are wrong. Wrong!"

So, what are the view of the Politics.ie posters? Has France more in common with England with whom it shares the Roman legacy, Christian origins, the Norman link, the Plantagenets, the Crusades jointly fought, a linguistic relationship, medievalism, the Black Death, numerous wars, Teutonic parentage, the experience of empire, the Enlightenment and so forth, or with Algeria -- a country that in my view it shares comparitively little in common with.
France est colonie d'Afrique
Seems to be heading that way alright.
 

stannis

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La France est vraiment europeene, mes amis. Oui, il y a beuacoup d'africains et arabs etc ici a Paris, mais l'histoire de France, la langue francaise, et la geographie de ce nation indiquent une identite europeene...

Pardon my French...
 
G

Guest

Indeed. The "history" of France is all that will be left of it a few decades hence. There is still a place marked St Sophia's Cathedral in Istanbul, you know, but it isn't really a cathedral at all; it's merely a piece if real estate.

In 30 years there'll probably still be an area on the map marked "France" but it won't in any way resemble the France of 1300 - 1950: the true France of Louis XIV, Richeliue, Charles Perrault, Voltaire, Rousseau, Napolean.

If the French today think they have more in common with Africa than with a fellow European nation, then France has been africanised. It has suffered from a severe bout of cultural amnesia from which it may never emerge.

France is dying. How long before the rest of Europe follows suit? "Europe (nee Christendom) RIP

From "Why Europe Chooses Extinction"[

Demographics is destiny. Never in recorded history have prosperous and peaceful nations chosen to disappear from the face of the earth. Yet that is what the Europeans have chosen to do. Back in 1348 Europe suffered the Black Death, a combination of bubonic plague and likely a form of mad cow disease, observes American Enterprise Institute scholar Ben Wattenberg. "The plague reduced the estimated European population by about a third. In the next 50 years, Europe's population will relive - in slow motion - that plague demography, losing about a fifth of its population by 2050 and more as the decades roll on."
Stannis, I admire your positive outlook, but you're wrong: Mantes La Jolie, an ancient French city just an hour's drive from Paris is 75% unassimilated Muslim. It is not French any longer, and it is not European.
 

stannis

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Then Le Pen and his party can be expected to grow stronger in the future. But only to speak from personal experience here, I do think that many French Arabs (especially the Maghrebins) are often more French than Arab in their tastes - not the same perhaps as in England, where multiculturalism reigns.
 

farnaby

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asteroid said:
At one point, my friend asserted that Morroco, Algeria and Turkey were 'European' and should be admitted to the European Union. I disagreed fundamentally.
If we're talking ancient history your friend has a point - the true southern border of european development was the sahara desert, as its centre was the mediterranean (consider the theory that our own country was heavily influenced by north african trade routes into the atlantic). France, with a Mediterranean coast, has ancient and modern links to north africa - e.g. Algerian-born Albert Camus.

I don't agree with bringing north african countries into the EU right now but in the final concept of Europe believe they and Turkey should be positively considered.
 
G

Guest

farnaby said:
asteroid said:
At one point, my friend asserted that Morroco, Algeria and Turkey were 'European' and should be admitted to the European Union. I disagreed fundamentally.
If we're talking ancient history your friend has a point - the true southern border of european development was the sahara desert, as its centre was the mediterranean (consider the theory that our own country was heavily influenced by north african trade routes into the atlantic). France, with a Mediterranean coast, has ancient and modern links to north africa - e.g. Algerian-born Albert Camus.

I don't agree with bringing north african countries into the EU right now but in the final concept of Europe believe they and Turkey should be positively considered.
I'm aware of all that, and I acknowledge the existence of past and present links. Do you think that the Americas and Australasia should also be admitted?
 

merle haggard

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France encouraged millions of North Africans at the point of a gun to regard France as their mother country , to regard Paris as the centre of the universe and to speak its language . In the 1940s and 50s they massacred tens of 1000s of Algerians who disagreed . I cant believe anyones complaining that so many of them seem to have now agreed and took their advice .
 
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Having worked for 6 months in Brittany, I can say with confidence that the Bretons (at least) are far more culturally and spiritually in tune with England than they are with Algeria.
 

farnaby

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asteroid said:
farnaby said:
asteroid said:
At one point, my friend asserted that Morroco, Algeria and Turkey were 'European' and should be admitted to the European Union. I disagreed fundamentally.
If we're talking ancient history your friend has a point - the true southern border of european development was the sahara desert, as its centre was the mediterranean (consider the theory that our own country was heavily influenced by north african trade routes into the atlantic). France, with a Mediterranean coast, has ancient and modern links to north africa - e.g. Algerian-born Albert Camus.

I don't agree with bringing north african countries into the EU right now but in the final concept of Europe believe they and Turkey should be positively considered.
I'm aware of all that, and I acknowledge the existence of past and present links. Do you think that the Americas and Australasia should also be admitted?
If you want to broaden the conversation that much, then let's just say I think a world of less barriers to trade and movement of population but with consistent fair regulation of markets would, managed correctly (i.e. a la EU widening not deepening), be alright by me! You're asking where to realistically draw the line for the EU, geographically and culturally - I say the sahara would be the southern limit that i can see in that there are enough historical, cultural and economic links to justify this - which is not to say that france is closer to algeria than england. If you believe islam is the cultural limit of EU expansion so be it, time will tell.
 
G

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merle haggard said:
France encouraged millions of North Africans at the point of a gun to regard France as their mother country , to regard Paris as the centre of the universe and to speak its language . In the 1940s and 50s they massacred tens of 1000s of Algerians who disagreed . I cant believe anyones complaining that so many of them seem to have now agreed and took their advice .
Imperialism was simultaneously one of the greatest triumphs and one of the most deadly mistakes the peoples of our great continent ever embarked upon.
 

wizzard

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asteroid said:
merle haggard said:
France encouraged millions of North Africans at the point of a gun to regard France as their mother country , to regard Paris as the centre of the universe and to speak its language . In the 1940s and 50s they massacred tens of 1000s of Algerians who disagreed . I cant believe anyones complaining that so many of them seem to have now agreed and took their advice .
Imperialism was simultaneously one of the greatest triumphs and one of the most deadly mistakes the peoples of our great continent ever embarked upon.
not least when it was coupled with two internecine wars and plummeting indigenous birth rates.
 

The OD

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This thread should be renamed:

Another reason to cut off all ties with the towelheads before we then whip up enough public opinion to start building the forced labour camps

OR

Creeping racist and sectarian thread 101..............................
 

wizzard

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The OD said:
This thread should be renamed:

Another reason to cut off all ties with the towelheads before we then whip up enough public opinion to start building the forced labour camps

The suppression of free debate is the precursor to the building of the forced labour camps I think you'll find.
 

Prester Jim

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Weird, no op author and it just resurrected itself?
Is this the end times?
:shock:
 

jams odonnell

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Chaps,

I had a similar conversation with my friend Jeremy recently at a Church Fête.

England: closer culturally to France, or Northen Ireland?

I was shocked and disgusted by the response.

Hearts and Minds of British Steel.
 


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