France & Germany to sign Aachen Treaty - core within a core?


farnaby

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There will be one seat at the UN for the EU
Which could make sense...

- jointly shared by 'Frankonia'
Nope, France won't give their's up which would happen if there was an EU seat. Instead they want to make room for their buddy.

The treaty extension stipulates that it will be a priority of German-French diplomacy for Germany to be accepted as a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council.
 

recedite

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The Treaty of Aachen is aimed at reversing the Treaty of Verdun [843] which broke up the Carolingian Empire



The Treaty of Verdun, signed in August 843, was the first of the treaties that divided the Carolingian Empire into three kingdoms among the three surviving sons of Louis the Pious, who was the son of Charlemagne. The treaty, signed in Verdun-sur-Meuse, ended the three-year Carolingian Civil War.
Treaty of Verdun - Wikipedia
Merkel and Macron seem to be intentionally creating a formal alliance to preserve their pre-eminent status, as against the emerging power of the Visegrad group in Europe.

All these historical noms de guerre are interesting.
Visegrad Citadel defended Europe's eastern frontiers, and bore the brunt of Islamic and Mongol invasions.
In 1335, Charles hosted at Visegrád a two-month congress with the Bohemian king, John of Luxembourg, and the Polish king, Casimir III. It was crucial in creating a peace between the three kingdoms and securing an alliance between Poland and Hungary against Habsburg Austria. Another congress followed in 1338.
Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor and King of Hungary and Croatia in personal union with Hungary, moved the royal seat to Buda between 1405 and 1408. King Matthias Corvinus of Hungary used Visegrád as a country residence.
Visegrád lost importance after the partition of the Kingdom of Hungary following the Battle of Mohács in 1526...

In 1991, the leading politicians of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Poland met here to form a periodical forum, the Visegrád group, with an intentional allusion to the meeting centuries earlier in 1335.
This new treaty of Aachen is all about cementing a Franco-German alliance that is strong enough to continue to dominate Europe, going forward.
 

Breanainn

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Let them at it. Two sovereign countries making such decisions is a matter for themselves. We need to be building alliances too with like minded countries.
We already are - part of the New Hanseatic League with Holland, the Baltic States, Sweden and Denmark.
 

farnaby

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All these historical noms de guerre are interesting.
Visegrad Citadel defended Europe's eastern frontiers, and bore the brunt of Islamic and Mongol invasions.
Indeed. Aachen for France-Germany, Visegrad for the east, new Hanseatic for the north.

Just need a suggestion for the south. Marathon - when the Greeks united to defeat pesky Middle Eastern invaders?
 

Goldenhyena

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A bit of gratitude (and basic good manners) wouldn't go amiss.

Breakdown of Poland’s finances with the EU in 2017:

Total EU spending in Poland: € 11.921 billion
Total Polish contribution to the EU budget: € 3.048 billion

Breakdown of Hungary’s finances with the EU in 2017:

Total EU spending in Hungary: € 4.049 billion
Total Hungarian contribution to the EU budget: € 0.821 billion

Personally I'd love to see both countries kicked on their arses out of the EU. They deserve nothing better than to be dominated by Russian barbarians once again - they certainly do not share our civilised western European values.
Neither country is yet ready to be an EU member.
Delighted to see that Hungary and Poland are treating the EU with the contempt in deserves: milk it for all it's worth but never subscribe to the empty values of the Germans.
The former Eastern Bloc now realize that the West is sick; Western european nations like France are castles built on sand and they no longer aspire to be like them.
 

Clanrickard

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Delighted to see that Hungary and Poland are treating the EU with the contempt in deserves: milk it for all it's worth but never subscribe to the empty values of the Germans.
The former Eastern Bloc now realize that the West is sick; Western european nations like France are castles built on sand and they no longer aspire to be like them.
If they don't like their values they shouldn't take their money.
 

raetsel

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Delighted to see that Hungary and Poland are treating the EU with the contempt in deserves: milk it for all it's worth but never subscribe to the empty values of the Germans.
The former Eastern Bloc now realize that the West is sick; Western european nations like France are castles built on sand and they no longer aspire to be like them.
:roll:
You admire spongers. Well done you.
 

toughbutfair

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The Nazis tried many times to rule us all but now they’ve figured that the pen can be mightier than the sword. The Brits were some counter weight as both countries had been defeated by them when at their peak so Britain commanded respect. Now the Brits are gone there isn’t a strong country left so no more pretending needed. I used to be pro Europe but for a decade now have realized what it is. The French want to be VP of Europe while the Germans follow their natural extinct.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Fear not, I am sure France and Germany will be keen to submit their Aachen accord to the scrutiny of the rest of the EU, ha ha, ha ha ha...

Reminds me that back in the early noughties there was a proposal to limit member state borrowing to 3% of GDP (which seems rather quaint now when 103% of GDP seems more popular).

Wonder how many people remember that it was the fiscally responsible France and Germany who vetoed the proposal at the time because it suited neither of their domestic economic policies.

Hardly ever gets a mention now, y'know.
 

toughbutfair

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Fear not, I am sure France and Germany will be keen to submit their Aachen accord to the scrutiny of the rest of the EU, ha ha, ha ha ha...

Reminds me that back in the early noughties there was a proposal to limit member state borrowing to 3% of GDP (which seems rather quaint now when 103% of GDP seems more popular).

Wonder how many people remember that it was the fiscally responsible France and Germany who vetoed the proposal at the time because it suited neither of their domestic economic policies.

Hardly ever gets a mention now, y'know.
Are you confusing deficits with debt? Remember the issue , France spent over the limit repeatedly and nothing happened. They and the Germans are hypocrites and control freaks. People need to read more German history to understand what they are.
 

fat finger

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This sounds like France and Germany erecting a tent within the tent.
Here in Ireland we know all about tent today, FF economic collapse tomorrow - two tents most certainly is not the answer, not the answer at all, and Leo should be phoning Emmanuel and Angela even this weekend to firmly declare Ireland's opposition
 

toughbutfair

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This sounds like France and Germany erecting a tent within the tent.
Here in Ireland we know all about tent today, FF economic collapse tomorrow - two tents most certainly is not the answer, not the answer at all, and Leo should be phoning Emmanuel and Angela even this weekend to firmly declare Ireland's opposition
Ireland cannot object while Brexit is being negotiated. We need all the allies we can get.
 

Shpake

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Looks like this will be one of the downsides of Brexit. France and Germany will now have much more leeway to dictate march-route of the EU. Strident opposition from PL, HU and CZ and SL will still be there but GB was a big heavyweight that will be missed.

The idle question kind of raises itself. If you are a voter in a German contstituency, your vote will have much more influence on the shape of EU policy than say a voter in one of the peripheral -- non-German, non-French countries -- such as here:confused2:
 

Of the Sword

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This might sound like a very silly question, but how can France & Germany sign up to such agreement outside of a cross EU agreement? So for example with the ongoing brexit discussions at a EU v's UK level. What's to stop Ireland cutting deals on pensions and non trade items with the UK and bypassing the EU position?
 

hiding behind a poster

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The idle question kind of raises itself. If you are a voter in a German contstituency, your vote will have much more influence on the shape of EU policy than say a voter in one of the peripheral -- non-German, non-French countries -- such as here:confused2:
That's not actually the case. Obviously the Parliament's numbers are weighted towards population size, but in the European Council small countries have a say vastly in excess of their proportional size.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
We'll see I suspect post-Brexit when Germany and France can turn their attention to tax matters. At the moment it suits Brussels to have Ireland agitating over the hard border element of Brexit so the interest on reforming tax matters may be held until that issue is through.
 

fat finger

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This might sound like a very silly question, but how can France & Germany sign up to such agreement outside of a cross EU agreement? So for example with the ongoing brexit discussions at a EU v's UK level. What's to stop Ireland cutting deals on pensions and non trade items with the UK and bypassing the EU position?

sounds like a reasonable question, but with this website get ready for a silly answer
 
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