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France & Germany to sign Aachen Treaty - core within a core?


hiding behind a poster

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We'll see I suspect post-Brexit when Germany and France can turn their attention to tax matters. At the moment it suits Brussels to have Ireland agitating over the hard border element of Brexit so the interest on reforming tax matters may be held until that issue is through.
When Ireland was over a barrel in 2011, France and Germany sought to make changes to Ireland's Corporation tax regime a condition of easing the onerous terms of the bailout. Ireland said no. You may remember this, there are posters on here who frequently post an image from that summit that supposedly shows Ireland giving in to France and Germany, when in fact the opposite happened.
 

Catalpast

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Which could make sense...



Nope, France won't give their's up which would happen if there was an EU seat. Instead they want to make room for their buddy.
No way the EU will be allowed 2 seats at the table

Yes I know that is the current position but when UK leaves they will have just 1

France may technically have a bum on it

- but it will be a German standing behind them....
 

Tacitus

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This might sound like a very silly question, but how can France & Germany sign up to such agreement outside of a cross EU agreement? So for example with the ongoing brexit discussions at a EU v's UK level. What's to stop Ireland cutting deals on pensions and non trade items with the UK and bypassing the EU position?
EU countries are allowed to cooperate more closely together if they want to. Which all this treaty really is about, a pledge to cooperate more closely together.

What's to stop Ireland cutting deals on pensions and non trade items with the UK and bypassing the EU position?
The knowledge that this would be utterly stupid perhaps? Why would Ireland willingly surrender the cloud it has as an EU member to negotiate alone with the vastly bigger UK?
 

recedite

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When Ireland was over a barrel in 2011, France and Germany sought to make changes to Ireland's Corporation tax regime a condition of easing the onerous terms of the bailout. Ireland said no. You may remember this, there are posters on here who frequently post an image from that summit that supposedly shows Ireland giving in to France and Germany, when in fact the opposite happened.
The daring duo did not "give in" to Ireland. That was an example of them trying to kick us while we were down on the ground. They were well out of order in even attempting it, and they were only chancing their arms because they saw a possible opportunity to exploit, a weakness in us.
RTE report on it here.
They had no right to do that because taxation was not then, and is not now, a competency of the EU.
They haven't yet given up trying to make it one though. Because if that happens, then they can control the fiscal policy of every other EU country.

Also note that Greece got the 1% reduction back in 2011 without any fuss.
And BTW these loans should have been at zero interest rate anyway.
If you lend your mates some money, do you charge interest?
ECB magics up the money out of thin air; it costs them nothing to create new money.
 

Goldenhyena

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They had no right to do that because taxation was not then, and is not now, a competency of the EU.
They haven't yet given up trying though.

Also note that Greece got the 1% reduction without any fuss.
And BTW these loans should have been at zero interest rate anyway.
If you lend your mates some money, do you charge interest?
ECB magics up the money out of thin air; it costs them nothing to create new money.[/QUOTE]

This all goes to show what a captive sham the snivelling Euro is, a German plot to ensnare the lesser nations into subservience, aided and abetted by their French collaborators. There is no escape.
 

stopdoingstuff

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A bit of gratitude (and basic good manners) wouldn't go amiss.

Breakdown of Poland’s finances with the EU in 2017:

Total EU spending in Poland: € 11.921 billion
Total Polish contribution to the EU budget: € 3.048 billion

Breakdown of Hungary’s finances with the EU in 2017:

Total EU spending in Hungary: € 4.049 billion
Total Hungarian contribution to the EU budget: € 0.821 billion

Personally I'd love to see both countries kicked on their arses out of the EU. They deserve nothing better than to be dominated by Russian barbarians once again - they certainly do not share our civilised western European values.
Neither country is yet ready to be an EU member.
Civilized as in supporting Islamic radicals in Syria or helping turn Libya into a failed state?
 

Degeneration X

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The Nazis tried many times to rule us all but now they’ve figured that the pen can be mightier than the sword. The Brits were some counter weight as both countries had been defeated by them when at their peak so Britain commanded respect. Now the Brits are gone there isn’t a strong country left so no more pretending needed. I used to be pro Europe but for a decade now have realized what it is. The French want to be VP of Europe while the Germans follow their natural extinct.
I think they tried once on the continent and never bothered with Ireland at all and extinction is a natural process but I don't understand the context.
 

McDave

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Most people believe the value of the EU was to stop those two countries going to war every 20 years.

It looks like politicians like Macron are happy to implement Hitler's vision for a new German empire.

I'm beginning to worry now about an EU without the UK.
More than those countries were going to war. More than these countries pursued imperialist policies. Given the opportunity, we’d be no different.

You should be more worried about falling foul of Godwin’s law.
 

McDave

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This might sound like a very silly question, but how can France & Germany sign up to such agreement outside of a cross EU agreement? So for example with the ongoing brexit discussions at a EU v's UK level. What's to stop Ireland cutting deals on pensions and non trade items with the UK and bypassing the EU position?
The Lisbon treaty allows groups of member states to pursue common policies among themselves without binding other member states.

It’s a direct response to the broadening of membership after 1989. It hasn’t really been used up until now. If it gets off the ground, it could stimulate a higher level of integration among a committed core, leaving others to effectively operate a single market.

I think it’s a welcome development.
 

GrimReefer

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France and Germany are taking steps now to prevent where possible a wedge being driven between them when it is clear that the EU is under direct, sustained attack from the USA and Russia.

It's not rocket science. The parents of the EU can't be turned against each other.
 

Clanrickard

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Clanrickard

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McDave

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France and Germany are taking steps now to prevent where possible a wedge being driven between them when it is clear that the EU is under direct, sustained attack from the USA and Russia.

It's not rocket science. The parents of the EU can't be turned against each other.
They are exercising common sense. In due course a core will form around them.
 

toughbutfair

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the Prussians convinced those states on the west that they should allow Prussia rule them to keep them safe after they provoked a conflict with their neighbours (France). The German instinct is to rule. Bismarck would approve of the current German deception. Never trust the Germans, remember what they are and what they did.
 

McDave

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the Prussians convinced those states on the west that they should allow Prussia rule them to keep them safe after they provoked a conflict with their neighbours (France). The German instinct is to rule. Bismarck would approve of the current German deception. Never trust the Germans, remember what they are and what they did.
Except ‘Prussia’ doesn’t dominate the Federal Republic. There have been plenty of constructive leaders since WW2. Including Adenauer, Brandt, Kohl, Schroeder and Merkel.

Never trust internet extremists. Especially those on high horses. You’ve a long way to fall.
 

APettigrew92

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France and Germany are taking steps now to prevent where possible a wedge being driven between them when it is clear that the EU is under direct, sustained attack from the USA and Russia.

It's not rocket science. The parents of the EU can't be turned against each other.
The Germans are knee-deep in Russian energy sales.

They're as greased as it comes. Have you ever wondered why the Germans are so acquiscent when the Russkis started a civil war in the Ukraine?

Uncle Vlad has his hand on the tap and the Germans need cheap Russian energy to keep the lights on. The French at least have their nuclear reactors still in operation.

Energy independence dictates action. The Germans are pressing an "eco-positive" agenda which would have France shut down her reactors in the name of "sustainability."

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-dependence-imported-fossil-fuels
Russia was by far the largest supplier in 2016, delivering 36 million tonnes, or almost 40 percent of oil imports
Seems progressive energy policies are doing more to increase dependency on Russian fuel.

On a different note, the intention of the French and Germans to essentially create an Austro-Hungarian Union 2.0 is going to do nothing good for the idea that Europe is a coherent community of equals.

You'd think people would learn from history. Oh well.
 

McDave

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Prussia did dominate it, the East dominated the west until they were broken up at the end of yet another war they caused in WW2.
Read my earlier post closely. Prussia was formally ended in 1946. Most of its former territories ended up divided up between the DDR, Poland and Russia. If the Federal Republic was dominated by any entities, it was by North Rhine Westphalia, Bavaria, and to a lesser extent Baden Wurttemburg.

You’re clueless.
 

McDave

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The Germans are knee-deep in Russian energy sales.

They're as greased as it comes. Have you ever wondered why the Germans are so acquiscent when the Russkis started a civil war in the Ukraine?

Uncle Vlad has his hand on the tap and the Germans need cheap Russian energy to keep the lights on. The French at least have their nuclear reactors still in operation.

Energy independence dictates action. The Germans are pressing an "eco-positive" agenda which would have France shut down her reactors in the name of "sustainability."

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-dependence-imported-fossil-fuels

Seems progressive energy policies are doing more to increase dependency on Russian fuel.

On a different note, the intention of the French and Germans to essentially create an Austro-Hungarian Union 2.0 is going to do nothing good for the idea that Europe is a coherent community of equals.

You'd think people would learn from history. Oh well.
Germany does business with Russia. It cooperates politically wth Russia. It has throughout our lifetimes (mine anyway), going back to Brandt’s Realpolitik.

It wasn’t Germany’s instinct to shaft Russia the way the Americans did with Gorbachev. Far better to cooperate than undermine. They learned from history.

Ukraine is another case in point. Russia was never going to give up the Crimea it had integrated into Ukraine during the Cold War. Ukraine made a big mistake over the issue of the leasing of ports to the Russian Navy. It’s been downhill for Ukraine ever since. Russia’s behaviour has been brutish and Machiavellian, but they learned their lesson from how they were walked all over during Yeltsin’s premiership. Why won’t Germany involve itself directly in this? Because it knows the background history, and knows there’s no point getting up on a high horse.
 
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