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France votes; Macron - v - Le Pen in the second round of voting for the presidency.


For whom would you vote in the 2nd round of the French Presidential election?


  • Total voters
    164
  • Poll closed .

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,653
The posts about which I complained concerning the fact that they were not moved. Have you managed to again confuse those with an earlier similar incident, as you did a few days ago? If you are modding with the same level of confusion you seem to be experiencing on this matter you should consider your position............. and see your doctor! It could be age-related but he will be better positioned than I to assess your little difficulty.
I wasn't talking, nor indeed thinking, about those alleged posts of yours. Your objection was supposedly that they weren't moved, not that you got an infraction for quoting them.
It's not all about you, dear. In fact it's very rarely about you, despite your neediness. :)
 
D

Deleted member 17573

I wasn't talking, nor indeed thinking, about those alleged posts of yours. Your objection was supposedly that they weren't moved, not that you got an infraction for quoting them.
It's not all about you, dear. In fact it's very rarely about you, despite your neediness. :)
I complained that a sustained, off-topic series of highly abusive posts, which I reported through normal channels, we're not moved. That is all there is to it. But you keep introducing extraneous matters in an attempt to distract from that. Anyway your boss has agreed that they should 'probably' have been moved to Handbagging. And that's the end of it, except to remind you that you're still off-topic.
 

General Mayhem

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
11,207
A complaint has been made against Petaljam. As is the accepted norm in her country, she has been sent for psychological examination, alongside Marine.

Sailor is Irish so his behaviour was deemed normal beforehand.
 

APettigrew92

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
2,687
A counterproductive move alright. Can’t say I like the woman (quite Yuk actually), but this crosses the separation of powers line.
As an Expat in France, I recently learned from a colleague of mine the attitudes of the typical French voter.

Ever since Chirac, every French President has been a compromise candidate.

If not for Fillon being the slimiest twerp going around, the Republicans would've cruised the last elections.

Macron is loathed in France as a Neocon ex-banker whose centrist platform has been dismantled by the left-wing politicians he chose to accompany him, most of whom are deriding him as a fraud.

France as a nation does not like Macron - but he does have one key thing in his favour.

He is not Front National. The establishment bourgeoisie - many of whom harbour anti-immigrant sentiment - are quite concerned with maintaining the facade that France is a multiicultural paradise despite certain suburbs now boasting an immigrant majority in Paris.

My point is that there are ghettos, not that immigration itself is harmful.
 

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,653
I complained that a sustained, off-topic series of highly abusive posts, which I reported through normal channels, we're not moved. That is all there is to it. But you keep introducing extraneous matters in an attempt to distract from that. Anyway your boss has agreed that they should 'probably' have been moved to Handbagging. And that's the end of it, except to remind you that you're still off-topic.
You're on the wrong thread here, we've established thaf your whinges elsethread couldn't possibly have been what I was referring to above. So no, I wasn't off-topic, I was making an analogy, but you definitely are. As so often.
 
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Deleted member 17573

You're on the wrong thread here, we've established thaf your whinges elsethread couldn't possibly have been what I was referring to above. So no, I wasn't off-topic, I was making an analogy, but you definitely are. As so often.
You went off-topic and if you don't desist I will feel obliged to report your lack of self-discipline.
 

McDave

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
13,557
As an Expat in France, I recently learned from a colleague of mine the attitudes of the typical French voter.

Ever since Chirac, every French President has been a compromise candidate.

If not for Fillon being the slimiest twerp going around, the Republicans would've cruised the last elections.

Macron is loathed in France as a Neocon ex-banker whose centrist platform has been dismantled by the left-wing politicians he chose to accompany him, most of whom are deriding him as a fraud.

France as a nation does not like Macron - but he does have one key thing in his favour.

He is not Front National. The establishment bourgeoisie - many of whom harbour anti-immigrant sentiment - are quite concerned with maintaining the facade that France is a multiicultural paradise despite certain suburbs now boasting an immigrant majority in Paris.

My point is that there are ghettos, not that immigration itself is harmful.
Interesting post.

As I understand it, what did for Le Pen at the last election was her anti-EU policy, which just doesn’t wash with the French electorate. Take that out and the FN is viable.

Which might explain attempts to question her sanity. Pre-emptive strike. The question is will it be politically counterproductive.
 

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,653
Interesting post.

As I understand it, what did for Le Pen at the last election was her anti-EU policy, which just doesn’t wash with the French electorate. Take that out and the FN is viable.

Which might explain attempts to question her sanity. Pre-emptive strike. The question is will it be politically counterproductive.
Second time (and I'm not the only poster pointing this out either) it's not an attempt to question her sanity, it's standard procedure for anyone accused of certain levels or types of crimes.

It can't possibly be counterproductive in France because French people know this. It's often referred to in passing in reporting on court cases. Bringing her to court might be I suppose. Having her undergo standard court procedures - not so much. :roll:
 

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
3,792
No that's not what's happening there. It's a law against spreading terrorist propaganda on social media.
It looks heavy-handed - or a misuse of the law.

It's a bit like posters here complaining about getting infracted when they have reposted something that is then removed for legal reasons - it doesn't matter that they were reposting to disagree with it, legal responsibility is incurred just by the act of posting.
If it's anything like p.ie, "legal reasons" is likely to mean whatever they want it to mean.

The obligation to undergo psychological testing is a fairly standard thing for the accused in the French justice system. It's about not punishing someone who turns out not to be of sound mind. It's probably more common because the system is inquisitorial as opposed to the British (and therefore Irish) adversarial one so it's not supposed to have any pejorative aspect to it.
But that is what it looks like; or at least it looks like an attempt at discrediting the person.
And I'm as far as you could get from an FN supporter.
 

McDave

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
13,557
It looks heavy-handed - or a misuse of the law.

If it's anything like p.ie, "legal reasons" is likely to mean whatever they want it to mean.


But that is what it looks like; or at least it looks like an attempt at discrediting the person.
And I'm as far as you could get from an FN supporter.
I agree. The idea that Le Pen is spreading ISIS propaganda is ludicrous. She’s obviously doing it (in bad taste!) for her own political reasons. Which is how I see the reaction to it.
 

McDave

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
13,557
Second time (and I'm not the only poster pointing this out either) it's not an attempt to question her sanity, it's standard procedure for anyone accused of certain levels or types of crimes.

It can't possibly be counterproductive in France because French people know this. It's often referred to in passing in reporting on court cases. Bringing her to court might be I suppose. Having her undergo standard court procedures - not so much. :roll:
I don’t agree. It’s not a simple case of dissemination - it’s using ISIS videos against them, albeit in bad taste.

And it will be counterproductive if it shores up her vote.
 

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,653
It looks heavy-handed - or a misuse of the law.

If it's anything like p.ie, "legal reasons" is likely to mean whatever they want it to mean.
Why on earth would anyone think it was "anything like p.ie" FFS? It's a country with a written constitution and a full time justice system. You clearly have decided to ignore anything that disproves your opinion no matter what.

But that is what it looks like; or at least it looks like an attempt at discrediting the person.
And I'm as far as you could get from an FN supporter.
To an Irish person who doesn't know anything about the French political system, I'm sure it does.
 

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,653
I don’t agree. It’s not a simple case of dissemination - it’s using ISIS videos against them, albeit in bad taste.

And it will be counterproductive if it shores up her vote.
Of course it could be counterproductive, but it's still not Le Pen being picked out for special treatment.
There are times when she has been (they didn't want her on TV for years, something I totally disagreed with. Still, section 31 anyone?) and, as ever, she will of course try to use this as part of her "oppression" trope.

Even so, it will only play in to that for her fans. Because it's not some sort of Soviet style oppression as posters here are trying to present it.

I'm not saying I agree with it - France does have authoritarian reflexes that I disagree strongly with.
But the way it's being presented on this thread is sheer hysteria. It won't be seen in that way in France because it's standard legal procedure. It's as likely to be seen as Le Pen following in her father's footsteps of being prepared to do or say anything to get publicity. His comments on the Holocaust for instance.

So it's just as likely to go against her, if she's seen as beginning to adopt his cynical approach when she had been so careful to create a more palatable image.

Now, if you don't want to believe any of that, feel free.
 

McDave

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
13,557
Of course it could be counterproductive, but it's still not Le Pen being picked out for special treatment.
There are times when she has been (they didn't want her on TV for years, something I totally disagreed with. Still, section 31 anyone?) and, as ever, she will of course try to use this as part of her "oppression" trope.

Even so, it will only play in to that for her fans. Because it's not some sort of Soviet style oppression as posters here are trying to present it.

I'm not saying I agree with it - France does have authoritarian reflexes that I disagree strongly with.
But the way it's being presented on this thread is sheer hysteria. It won't be seen in that way in France because it's standard legal procedure. It's as likely to be seen as Le Pen following in her father's footsteps of being prepared to do or say anything to get publicity. His comments on the Holocaust for instance.

So it's just as likely to go against her, if she's seen as beginning to adopt his cynical approach when she had been so careful to create a more palatable image.

Now, if you don't want to believe any of that, feel free.
What you’ve posted is your well articulated opinion. There is no obligation on any poster here to ‘believe’ what you say. Or to take extreme interpretations elsewhere on this thread as the benchmark for discussion.

On the FN generally, I think they don’t have much moderation to do to win substantially more votes next time round. For one, expressing support for the EU. That could make them quite competitive against a very unpopular Macron.

As for requiring LP to undergo some form of psychological test, that to my mind is a politicised assault on a party leader. What she did is either illegal in itself, or not.

Put another way, why would any sane political leader allow themselves to be judged by a mental health professional? It seems quite ludicrous to me. And inappropriate. Or as the French might say an ‘affront’.
 
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