Frank Stagg

Slartibuckfast

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anmajornarthainig said:
Dublindaze

Two points, one of them a question

1. Judging by the linked article and when Stagg was arrested it is unlikely that he killed anybody now alone women and children.

2. What about men? Do men not count as casualties?
I don't think they ever killed any men at all, they just went after women and children.
 


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Thanks for the info Slarti, I was starting to cynically think that Dublin Daze was throwing around ridiculous, emotive statements in order to shut up views different to his own rather than trying to engage in adult, sensible debate. Apologies to you both
 

Limerick Lad

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anmajornarthainig said:
To bring this post back on topic. Going on what I know about the case the wishes of Frank Stagg himself should have been respected, regardless of what the state, or indeed his own family felt about it, tough and all as they may be for some people to accept.
Legally when your dead your wishes with regard to the disposal of your remains are just that, wishes, as your body is now the property of your next of kin to do with what they will within the law. This is why when your dead even if you've expressed a desire to be an organ donor and maybe even carry an organ donor card, your family have to consent before you organs can be harvested.
 
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Thanks for that Limerick Lad, but the fact is that I think his wishes should have been respected regardless of what people thought about it. He seems to have been very clear in what he wanted.
 

Conuil

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Insider2007 said:
Conuil said:
Insider2007 said:
Conuil said:
the hatchetman said:
http://www.politics.ie/wiki/index.php?title=Frank_Stagg

This gives a brief insight into one of the most disgraceful, embarrassing moments in free state history.
My question is to the free staters of this site, are you embarrassed by your governments actions in the handling of frank staggs death?

BTW I'm not trolling, i just want to see what is people's genuine opinion on this. So if you think he's dirty provo scum, a criminal, a terrorist......come out with it, as am not going to argue back as i just want honest opinions on this case.
Volunteer. Frank Stagg IRA;

Was one of 22 brave Irish POWs' who died opposing the badge of criminality, pinned on them. By the London and surprisingly Dublin governments....

As such, their memories should be honoured by every Irish citizen who believes in FREEDOM, JUSTICE AND PEACE .

Frank's dying wish was to be buried beside his friend and comrade, Oglach. Micheal Gaughan. His wishes should've been respected, though thanks to the IRA; they were fulfilled.....

This was without the backing of his brother, Emmet Stagg. Who behaved disgracefully throughout Frank's incarceration, stalic, death and funeral...
The ONLY people who behaved disgracefully were the scumbag republicans. I was in school shortly afterwards with one of Frank's nephews. You have NO IDEA for you baastards put that family through. Republican scumbags tried to vandalise family graves and tried to piiss and defacate on them. The family was traumatised by the fascist actions of republicans. The reason some of the family wanted an IRA funeral was because they were threatened and had to agree.

I remember that time all right. In primary school one of my classmate's fathers had a nervous breakdown after a bank robbery by the IRA in the bank he worked. One of the basstards responsible forced a shotgun into his mouth and threatened to blow his brains out, then find his wife and rape her. The headmaster's brother, a young guard about to get married, was shot dead by IRA scum. And in secondary school I had the guy sitting in front of me who had had faeces posted to his family, family graves defacated on, and his uncle's grave dug up.

Those who lived through that time, and seen the scum elements of republicanism in action, haven't forgotten. Just because the republican movement finally copped on to itself after decades and stopped murdering men, women and children, means that people are willing to give them a chance. It does not mean, and will never mean, that they have forgotten what we were all put through by murderers mascarading as republicans.
I REPEAT AGAIN - Frank's dying wish was to be buried beside his friend and comrade, Oglach. Micheal Gaughan. His wishes should've been respected and thanks to the IRA; they were fulfilled.....

I'm not a bastard...

Could U please provide evidence of the following;

'Republican scumbags tried to vandalise family graves and tried to piiss and defacate on them. The family was traumatised by the fascist actions of republicans. The reason some of the family wanted an IRA funeral was because they were threatened and had to agree'.

Could U please provide evidence of the following;

'In primary school one of my classmate's fathers had a nervous breakdown after a bank robbery by the IRA in the bank he worked. One of the basstards responsible forced a shotgun into his mouth and threatened to blow his brains out, then find his wife and rape her. The headmaster's brother, a young guard about to get married, was shot dead by IRA scum. And in secondary school I had the guy sitting in front of me who had had faeces posted to his family, family graves defacated on, and his uncle's grave dug up'.
(a) I know from the victims of it. I was with a victim of it one day when they opened an envellope and found a card in it saying "your mother should should have aborted you, you British bastard. I hope you die of cancer." Nice thing to send a kid, eh! And that was one of the nicer ones.

(b) Cut the innocent crap. You lot devestated the Stagg, Hand and Monaghan families, and thousands of others.

Republicans like to play the victimhood card. You like to go on and on and on about rough things were for you. Your suffering was nothing compared to what you put your victims through; the gardaí you set to a boobytrapped house in Mountmellick, leaving one young guard blown to pieces and others maimed, without limbs and others left blind and deaf. It was nothing compared to the families who had to see their loved ones' limbs swept up with sweeping brushes after outrages like the Le Mon bombing, the blowing up of people remembering their war dead at Enniskillen.

Yes republicans suffered, and yes disgraceful things happened to them. But they did their own disgraceful acts throughout this island. Men, women and children were murdered. People left maimed. Republicans like to go on and on about their 'martyrs' but then expect everyone else to stay quiet about their victims. If you want to talk about the future of Irish republicanism, do. But if you want to go on and on about your victimhood, others can join in. And the crimes you committed far outweigh your victim status. If your victims complain, republicans are the first to demand that people move on, and not get stuck in the past. But republicans never shup up about their own past, never stop talking about their victims, and never stop demanding that crimes committed against them be investigated, while crimes they committed be forgotten.

If you want to start reexploring the past, Irish people will. They will tell the generations who did not live through the 1970s and 1980s what it was like to have gunmen maurading around the country, what it was like to watch the news and hear about the latest IRA murder, the latest IRA maiming, the latest Irish person forced to leave their own country under threat from republicans.

You make up your mind. Do you want to deal with the future or the past. If you want the past, then there is a hell of a lot many of the people on this site, and many first time voters, don't know about your organisation, the crimes it committed and the victims it created. And there are also a hell of a lot of people here and elsewhere who remember all too well what it was like.

Real victims have put up with republican self-righteous posing for too long. And if you think the past doesn't matter, ask yourself why even with Stormont up and running, hundreds of thousands of people in the election choose to elect anyone, even Jackie Healy Rae, rather that Shinners. The fact is that they have not forgotten what you and your associates put us all through. And they would prefer to vote for the devil than vote for a member of a party with your shameful past.
Bhuel Bhuel a chara;

I guess with all your emotive language, U should apply for a job with THE SUN...after all U like reading crap....

Regards Oglach. Frank Stagg, have U ever visited his grave or paid tribute to him? No, I didn't think so...A little selfish, I'd imagine?

Anyway, as for your evidence, I was with a victim of it one day when they opened an envellope and found a card in it saying "your mother should should have aborted you, you British bastard. I hope you die of cancer." Well, yeah I'd agree with U about it being a disgrace etc.. Though how do U know a Shinner sent it? Was it signed or something?

As for the suffering of all those victims, I disagree with U...As no-one can state their suffering or grief is more or less, than anyone else's :oops:
What year did the young Guard get boobytrapped? As I'm aware that, IRA Volunteers are not permitted to attack members of the Gardai or Irish Army! Yeah, unfortunately it has happened, but successive Leaderships have ruled these 'operations' wrong and unjustified...

Regarding, the deaths in Enniskillen and Le Mon...all were terrible tragedies and in the aftermath of both. The IRA apoligised to all those who died...as they were not the targets....The IRA even disbanded and expelled the Unit, responsible for the explosion in Enniskillen.

On the other hand, did the Irish Army apologise to the family of IRA Volunteer, Tom Smith who was killed in Portlaoise in 1975? Or the British Army apologise for killing 14 Irish citizens in Derry in 1972?

Listen, there has been a conflict in this country on and off for over eight centuries...Maybe U should study why,how and where every death took place instead of focusing on selective deaths. Which make you feel somehow superior to others :roll:
 

sandar

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whatever about the aims of the republican movement in relation to the six counties, they were groups who did not recognisethe the legitimate Irish Republic in 1975 and wished to destroy that republic....they attacked the security forces of the irish republic.the governments of the Irish republic at that time had to defend the state., just as they would have to do if the british or any otherf oreign country came to subvert the irish state rtoday, I think the thing which outrages republicans is that the government in the twenty-six counties never really supported them, but republicans fail to realise that by wishing to overthrow the irish republic they effectively declared war on the twenty-six counties, and shouldn't have been surprised when the government of the republic of ireland fought back. That is not to condone the manhy awful things done by governments in the twenty-six counties, such as the treatment of frank stagg.
 

Slartibuckfast

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sandar said:
whatever about the aims of the republican movement in relation to the six counties, they were groups who did not recognisethe the legitimate Irish Republic in 1975 and wished to destroy that republic....they attacked the security forces of the irish republic.the governments of the Irish republic at that time had to defend the state., just as they would have to do if the british or any otherf oreign country came to subvert the irish state rtoday, I think the thing which outrages republicans is that the government in the twenty-six counties never really supported them, but republicans fail to realise that by wishing to overthrow the irish republic they effectively declared war on the twenty-six counties, and shouldn't have been surprised when the government of the republic of ireland fought back. That is not to condone the manhy awful things done by governments in the twenty-six counties, such as the treatment of frank stagg.
When did they actually carry out a campaign to overthrow the Republic, or indeed any campaign against that state's forces? Was this in the Sindo?
 

DublinDaze

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anmajornarthainig said:
I was starting to cynically think that Dublin Daze was throwing around ridiculous, emotive statements
I made a single statement:

If he was in the IRA then he was indeed a criminal in the eyes of Ireland, a member of a terrorist organisation that killed over 2000 people.
If you could point me to the bit that is emotive or ridiculous then that would be helpful kthxbai.
 

Conuil

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sandar said:
whatever about the aims of the republican movement in relation to the six counties, they were groups who did not recognise the the legitimate Irish Republic in 1975 and wished to destroy that republic....they attacked the security forces of the Irish republic.the governments of the Irish republic at that time had to defend the state., just as they would have to do if the British or any other foreign country came to subvert the Irish state today, I think the thing which outrages republicans is that the government in the twenty-six counties never really supported them, but republicans fail to realise that by wishing to overthrow the Irish republic they effectively declared war on the twenty-six counties, and shouldn't have been surprised when the government of the republic of Ireland fought back. That is not to condone the many awful things done by governments in the twenty-six counties, such as the treatment of frank stagg.
In all honesty Chara; I know of no IRA order/directive from 1969 - 1994, to overthrow the Irish Government or its Institutions.

As whenever, IRA Volunteers were captured by the Irish Army/Gardai; their orders were to; NOT to take action and to surrender themselves and when questioned to state that any weapons they had; were to be used against British Occupying Forces in Ireland...

Though, I welcome your words about the treatment of Volunteer. Frank Stagg's remains....
 

Conuil

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Seamus said:
The IRA even disbanded and expelled the Unit, responsible for the explosion in Enniskillen.
Do you honestly believe that?
It's irrelevant whether I belive it or not...

As I'm only quoting a statement from ONH from the time...

What's the point anyhow?
 

Insider2007

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Conuil said:
sandar said:
whatever about the aims of the republican movement in relation to the six counties, they were groups who did not recognise the the legitimate Irish Republic in 1975 and wished to destroy that republic....they attacked the security forces of the Irish republic.the governments of the Irish republic at that time had to defend the state., just as they would have to do if the British or any other foreign country came to subvert the Irish state today, I think the thing which outrages republicans is that the government in the twenty-six counties never really supported them, but republicans fail to realise that by wishing to overthrow the Irish republic they effectively declared war on the twenty-six counties, and shouldn't have been surprised when the government of the republic of Ireland fought back. That is not to condone the many awful things done by governments in the twenty-six counties, such as the treatment of frank stagg.
In all honesty Chara; I know of no IRA order/directive from 1969 - 1994, to overthrow the Irish Government or its Institutions.

As whenever, IRA Volunteers were captured by the Irish Army/Gardai; their orders were to; NOT to take action and to surrender themselves and when questioned to state that any weapons they had; were to be used against British Occupying Forces in Ireland...
Tell that to the Irish ministers in the 1970s who had constant death threats from a self-proclaimed 'army'. Tell that to the civil servants who needed garda protection from that 'army'. Tell that to the family of Senator Billy Fox. Tell that to the families of the garda maimed and killed in Mountmellick and elsewhere in the state.
 

jerryp

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As whenever, IRA Volunteers were captured by the Irish Army/Gardai; their orders were to; NOT to take action and to surrender themselves and when questioned to state that any weapons they had; were to be used against British Occupying Forces in Ireland...

A load of utter crap ! Tell that to the McCabe and other families !
 

Slartibuckfast

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jerryp said:
As whenever, IRA Volunteers were captured by the Irish Army/Gardai; their orders were to; NOT to take action and to surrender themselves and when questioned to state that any weapons they had; were to be used against British Occupying Forces in Ireland...

A load of utter crap ! Tell that to the McCabe and other families !
Are you saying their orders were different to that?
 

Rich OC

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Slartibuckfast said:
jerryp said:
As whenever, IRA Volunteers were captured by the Irish Army/Gardai; their orders were to; NOT to take action and to surrender themselves and when questioned to state that any weapons they had; were to be used against British Occupying Forces in Ireland...

A load of utter crap ! Tell that to the McCabe and other families !
Are you saying their orders were different to that?
Their actions were different to that. Their weapons were used on a lot more than the British Occupying Forces.
 

Insider2007

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Rich OC said:
Slartibuckfast said:
jerryp said:
As whenever, IRA Volunteers were captured by the Irish Army/Gardai; their orders were to; NOT to take action and to surrender themselves and when questioned to state that any weapons they had; were to be used against British Occupying Forces in Ireland...

A load of utter crap ! Tell that to the McCabe and other families !
Are you saying their orders were different to that?
Their actions were different to that. Their weapons were used on a lot more than the British Occupying Forces.
The IRA men arrested for the Mounmellick slaughter of a young guard and the maiming of his colleagues admitted in that the intention always had been to kill a lot of gardaí. The IRA also killed members of the Irish Defence Forces.
 

Seamus

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Conuil said:
Seamus said:
The IRA even disbanded and expelled the Unit, responsible for the explosion in Enniskillen.
Do you honestly believe that?
It's irrelevant whether I belive it or not...

As I'm only quoting a statement from ONH from the time...

What's the point anyhow?
The unit wasnt disbanded or expelled to the best of my knowledge and its highly unlikely that the unit involved in enniskillen would have been disbanded or expelled as the morale in the army would have been dealt a huge blow, as any disbandment or expulsion would have been the result of the huge media pressure as well as the public outrage being brought down on psf.
To the volunteer on the ground who is under orders to carry out such attacks it would be very confusing for them as to who is in actual charge of the army.
 

Slartibuckfast

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They did kill some Gardai and a couple of soldiers but not as part of any campaign against the Republic. To say otherwise is stupid.
 

Rich OC

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People don't know who is in charge of the army :shock: , that explains a lot. :?
Well here he is:

Lieutenant General Dermot Earley



Hope this helps. ;)
 

Seamus

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Rich OC said:
People don't know who is in charge of the army :shock: , that explains a lot. :?
Well here he is:

Lieutenant General Dermot Earley



Hope this helps. ;)
I suppose that document he's signing is another legal settlement for another grunter gone deaf.
 


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