Frank Stagg



Conuil

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Seamus said:
Conuil said:
Seamus said:
The IRA even disbanded and expelled the Unit, responsible for the explosion in Enniskillen.
Do you honestly believe that?
It's irrelevant whether I belive it or not...

As I'm only quoting a statement from ONH from the time...

What's the point anyhow?
The unit wasnt disbanded or expelled to the best of my knowledge and its highly unlikely that the unit involved in enniskillen would have been disbanded or expelled as the morale in the army would have been dealt a huge blow, as any disbandment or expulsion would have been the result of the huge media pressure as well as the public outrage being brought down on psf.
To the volunteer on the ground who is under orders to carry out such attacks it would be very confusing for them as to who is in actual charge of the army.
I can't recall the exact date the L/Ship statement was issued, but it was around the middle of '88. It was released soon after the same ASU killed an Off-Duty RUC member in County Donegal. As well as, a woman civilian in County Fermanagh, who they belived was a UDR Greenfinch. Sadly, it was the wrong infomation :cry:

I belive your also wrong, stating that any explusion would have dealt the IRA a huge blow. Throughout, Republican history many, many Volunteer have been dismissed by successive Leaderships. Sure, you can't deny that?

Regarding who's actually in charge; according to the IRA's Constitution...The Army Executive and Army Council....If a particular O/C wishes to carry-out operations on his/her own bat - they must take the consequences for those actions....
 

Ireland2007

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(a) I know from the victims of it. I was with a victim of it one day when they opened an envellope and found a card in it saying "your mother should should have aborted you, you British bastard. I hope you die of cancer." Nice thing to send a kid, eh! And that was one of the nicer ones.
How do weirdos like yourself actually make that stuff up? You're a disturbed character alright.
 

Conuil

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jerryp said:
As whenever, IRA Volunteers were captured by the Irish Army/Gardai; their orders were to; NOT to take action and to surrender themselves and when questioned to state that any weapons they had; were to be used against British Occupying Forces in Ireland...

A load of utter crap ! Tell that to the McCabe and other families !
I and other Republicans have already dealt with the tragic death of; Garda McCabe in other threads...
 

Conuil

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Insider2007 said:
Rich OC said:
Slartibuckfast said:
jerryp said:
As whenever, IRA Volunteers were captured by the Irish Army/Gardai; their orders were to; NOT to take action and to surrender themselves and when questioned to state that any weapons they had; were to be used against British Occupying Forces in Ireland...

A load of utter crap ! Tell that to the McCabe and other families !
Are you saying their orders were different to that?
Their actions were different to that. Their weapons were used on a lot more than the British Occupying Forces.
The IRA men arrested for the Mounmellick slaughter of a young guard and the maiming of his colleagues admitted in that the intention always had been to kill a lot of gardaí. The IRA also killed members of the Irish Defence Forces.
Well Insider; according to U, 'the The IRA men arrested for the Mounmellick slaughter of a young guard and the maiming of his colleagues admitted in that the intention always had been to kill a lot of gardaí'...

I honestly can't recall the whole incident, nor anyone admitting in Court that their intention was to kill lots of Gardai....
 

Tiernanator

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I attended Frank Stagg's official republican commemoration (without the body). Frank Stagg's mother made her feelings very clear by attending the republican commemoration. She disagreed with the state's illegal theft of her son's remains. The posters saying the family was intimidated by republicans are telling outright lies. I wouldn't hold much on anything Emmett Stagg said. Unlike him I am a proud Gay Irish republican and not afraid to nail any of my colours to the mast. This was a shameful event and those responsible should be ashamed.
 
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Judging by the answers here, all people seem to be in agreement that the actions of the governmental authority of the 26 counties were in fact disgraceful, even if it was disguised with the usual le mon, enniskillen.....

I dont bring up ballyseedy at every opportunity and unlike le mon/enniskillen it WAS a deliberarte attempt to murder unarmed men
Anyway its nice to see everyone in a agreement on here,as the actions of the state would even make some of the brits cringe.

2 republican heroes, micheal gaughan, and frank stagg. Let their names never be forgotten, they paid the ultimate sacrafice and died like many other republican heroes in the most courageous of ways.
 

Tiernanator

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Hatchetman here is one person who has no intention of ever forgetting our republican dead or indeed all the poor people who died so tragically as a consequence of England's illegal occupation of part of our country.

From Wolfe Tone to Pearse to Bobby Sands "breaking the connection with England" is still as important for the healing of our national psyche as it was in 1798. I can understand people being against violence however I cannot understand Irish people supporting the illegal occupation of the north. Just can't. I would revoke their citizenship and send them back to Mother England if they are so fussed on her.
 

Seamus

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I can't recall the exact date the L/Ship statement was issued, but it was around the middle of '88. It was released soon after the same ASU killed an Off-Duty RUC member in County Donegal. As well as, a woman civilian in County Fermanagh, who they belived was a UDR Greenfinch. Sadly, it was the wrong infomation
Well considering the enniskillen bomb went off on the 8th november 1987 it was certainly a delayed reaction but wouldnt it be more accurate to say that the unit was "alledgedly" disbanded after the shootings of the off-duty ruc member and the civilian than for enniskillen?
Id suspect mentioning enniskillen was to offset the damage it did to psf who didnt really recover from it in fermanagh for years.

I belive your also wrong,
When was i wrong the first time?

stating that any explusion would have dealt the IRA a huge blow.
I didnt state that at all,what i did say was....

its highly unlikely that the unit involved in enniskillen would have been disbanded or expelled as the morale in the army would have been dealt a huge blow, as any disbandment or expulsion would have been the result of the huge media pressure as well as the public outrage being brought down on psf.
I never said any explusion but expulsion in relation to the enniskillen attack,couldnt be any clearer.
 

Slartibuckfast

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Why would they have expelled them for shooting an off duty cop? Isn't that what they did?
 

sandar

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a deliberate military campaign has never been run by PIRA against the Republic of Ireland, but many members of the irish defence forces were attacked by the IRA for various reasons, as were members of our legislature, those are acts of war, whi;e sedition is a crime whcih does not require military action, the point I was making was that the government of the republic of ireland are often called collaboratiors, but why woul;d he co-operate with a movement, such as the republican movem,ent which has as one of its stated aims the overthrow of the republic?
the treatment of Frank Stagg by the British was absolutely awful, completely beneath contempt, I can also see how an argument might be made that the Irish government should have tried harder to defend Frank's interest when he was alive, but once he died the Irish government could not reasonably aid in his martyrdom as it was a martyrdom which was conducted with the aims of achieving a victory for the IRA in the long term, and one of those aims was the overthrow of the Irish state, the republic of Ireland would therefore have been acting against its own interests.
Tiernanator, that would eman that about ninety-seven per cent of the people would be repatriated back to england leaving not many of you left in Ireland, also forced repatriation and contempt for other people's views are not republican ideals, they cannot be part of a movement which calls itself republican
 

Conuil

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Seamus said:
I can't recall the exact date the L/Ship statement was issued, but it was around the middle of '88. It was released soon after the same ASU killed an Off-Duty RUC member in County Donegal. As well as, a woman civilian in County Fermanagh, who they belived was a UDR Greenfinch. Sadly, it was the wrong infomation
Well considering the enniskillen bomb went off on the 8th november 1987 it was certainly a delayed reaction but wouldnt it be more accurate to say that the unit was "alledgedly" disbanded after the shootings of the off-duty ruc member and the civilian than for enniskillen?
Id suspect mentioning enniskillen was to offset the damage it did to psf who didnt really recover from it in fermanagh for years.

[quote:99vix01c]I belive your also wrong,
When was i wrong the first time?

stating that any explusion would have dealt the IRA a huge blow.
I didnt state that at all,what i did say was....

its highly unlikely that the unit involved in enniskillen would have been disbanded or expelled as the morale in the army would have been dealt a huge blow, as any disbandment or expulsion would have been the result of the huge media pressure as well as the public outrage being brought down on psf.
I never said any explusion but expulsion in relation to the enniskillen attack,couldnt be any clearer.[/quote:99vix01c]

First off;
You said the IRA statement about the dismissals, was certainly a delayed reaction. Obviously, there had to be an internal inquiry into what went dramatically wrong in Enniskillen...

Secondly; U were wrong regarding your following comments;

The unit wasnt disbanded or expelled to the best of my knowledge and its highly unlikely that the unit involved in enniskillen would have been disbanded or expelled as the morale in the army would have been dealt a huge blow.
And finally; the terrible and it was a terrible operation in Enniskillen, was mentioned in the 1988 IRA Statement, as well as the other two deaths.

BTW; I'm trying to find the original statement....
 

Conuil

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Slartibuckfast said:
Why would they have expelled them for shooting an off duty cop? Isn't that what they did?
Simply because, the killing took place in County Donegal;

As I said earlier, the IRA Leadership did not authorise any offensive military operations in the 26 Counties.....Such as executing RUC members.....
 

Conuil

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sandar said:
a deliberate military campaign has never been run by PIRA against the Republic of Ireland, but many members of the irish defence forces were attacked by the IRA for various reasons, as were members of our legislature, those are acts of war, whi;e sedition is a crime whcih does not require military action, the point I was making was that the government of the republic of ireland are often called collaboratiors, but why woul;d he co-operate with a movement, such as the republican movem,ent which has as one of its stated aims the overthrow of the republic?
the treatment of Frank Stagg by the British was absolutely awful, completely beneath contempt, I can also see how an argument might be made that the Irish government should have tried harder to defend Frank's interest when he was alive, but once he died the Irish government could not reasonably aid in his martyrdom as it was a martyrdom which was conducted with the aims of achieving a victory for the IRA in the long term, and one of those aims was the overthrow of the Irish state, the republic of Ireland would therefore have been acting against its own interests.
Tiernanator, that would eman that about ninety-seven per cent of the people would be repatriated back to england leaving not many of you left in Ireland, also forced repatriation and contempt for other people's views are not republican ideals, they cannot be part of a movement which calls itself republican
A Chara, the stated aim of the IRA is to create an Irish Republic; not the other way around....

Though, thanks for saying that the treatment of Oglach. Frank Stagg was terrible...

I must repeat though that, Frank's dying wishes should've been respected by the then Irish Government...

Instead of, as Merle righty said; the theft of a body and its burial under concrete was absolutely obscene . Not to mention ignorant , backward and plain stupid . Only an ignoramus and an idiot could defend such an action , or a complete discredited looper like Conor Cruise .
 

Conuil

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merle haggard said:
but stiffing mountbatten only a few miles up the road was OK ? Or Ewart Biggs in Dublin ?
Mountbatten was killed in 1979;

Ewart Biggs was killed in 1976;

Different times chara, different Leaderships and of course there were indeed exceptional targets.....

The other operations, were done in 1987/1988. And were at best wrong...

I don't understand your logic here, are you not a one-time Republican Activist :roll:
 

Conuil

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merle haggard said:
my logic is fine . Its the Adams logic Im questioning . And Im still a republican activist . I wasnt aware of announcing my retirement .
What has Gerry Adams or current S/F strategy got to do with Frank Stagg ?

I'm glad UR still an activist chara...

Why then have U questioned past IRA actions on this thread :roll:
 

MeTarzanYouVoter

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Jul 3, 2007
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Ok, there's a republican tradition of grave-side orations. I actually find the Pearse oration at O'Donovan Rossa's funeral quite good:

"... Life springs from death; and from the graves of patriot men and women spring living nations. The Defenders of this Realm have worked well in secret and in the open. They think that they have pacified Ireland. They think that they have pacified half of us and intimidated the other half. They think that they have foreseen everything, think that they have provided against everything; but the fools, the fools, the fools! - they have left us our Fenian dead - And while Ireland holds these graves, Ireland unfree shall never be at peace...."

However, there's a world of a difference between that and engaging in graverobbing to goose-step around in pastiche ceremonies, to become self-parody. And you can come clean and admit that it was totally against the wishes of the family too; if you'd care to speak with any of them they'll continue to tell you so.

It would be great if republicans could turn their attention to those for whom they have not yet disclosed accurate co-ordinates for the executions and burials. (I hate the term "disappeared" but loyalists can still use it as a stick with which to beat the republican movement as long as the situation continues without any closure for those families).
 


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