Free masks would sharply reduce Covid-19 viral transmission risks on public transport after lockdowns end

Patslatt1

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The social distancing rule of two metres would make public transport hopelessly uneconomic by reducing capacity by roughly two thirds.To restore a lot of that lost capacity and reduce risks of Covid-19 viral transmission , transport companies should provide free masks at the point of entry to vehicles and locations nearby. Passenger could then be seated on all seats. On the Dublin Luas, a guard on the tram would control entry at a single door that opens,limiting the numbers of passengers to those who could be seated and possibly handing out free masks. Few or no passengers would be allowed to stand in the aisles because it would be very difficult for people to move to and from this single door.
Provision of free masks would be necessary to prevent a minority of irresponsible people from wearing masks beyond the roughly one day time limit of use. At present, the cheapest masks are sold in Lidl in batches of 50 for about 50 euros, a lot of money to people on tight budgets. With their mass purchasing power, transport companies should be able to supply masks at a cost a fraction of that. A government subsidy should be provided in the interest of public health.
An interesting scientific question is the degree of safety provided by masks. The tiny Covid-19 virus can penetrate masks other than the N95 type that stops 95% of viruses.(Because of potential breathing difficulties, medical permissions are required for N95 in many US states.)To infect a person from a cough or a sneeze, the virus would have to exit the mask of the person coughing,travel a few feet and penetrate the mask of another person. The fact that all passengers on London's subway trains are supposed to wear masks suggests two masks are an effective barrier. There is an additional risk of viral transmission from physical contact of passengers seated beside each other as viruses on clothing are transmitted. Viruses on Luas seats and poles could also be transmitted. To prevent that, at each terminus the Luas tram enters it might be necessary to spray the interiors with disinfectant.
 
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wombat

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Running half empty trains, trams and buses defeats the purpose of public transport. Can't see any harm in giving free face coverings at entry to transport to those who don't have them although looking at people who wear masks currently, I don't think cost is what's stopping people wearing them.
 

bormotello

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To have free masks, Ireland should start to produce them locally at least 2-5 million per day
 

Uganda

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There are risks associated with non surgical masks

Edinburgh university have completed a study showing that plumes can be thrown backwards from non surgical masks
 

Dearghoul

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There are risks associated with non surgical masks

Edinburgh university have completed a study showing that plumes can be thrown backwards from non surgical masks
Please explain.

You've got it and sneeze, and back it goes to source.

Where is the new risk entailed?
 

gijoe

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Where are reuseable masks generally available? I would use them if they were available. I haven't seen them for sale.
 

wombat

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Please explain.

You've got it and sneeze, and back it goes to source.

Where is the new risk entailed?
I think it was MIT who showed a sneeze could travel 15 ft. There are all sorts of possibilities that can happen but most are unlikely - even with the best PPE, medics still get the virus. I would be interested in seeing if the incidence of colds have also dropped because of our Covid precautions?
 

Dearghoul

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I think it was MIT who showed a sneeze could travel 15 ft. There are all sorts of possibilities that can happen but most are unlikely - even with the best PPE, medics still get the virus. I would be interested in seeing if the incidence of colds have also dropped because of our Covid precautions?
Yeah but backwards?

The idea of masks was, I thought, to not spread it out front.
 

bormotello

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Where are reuseable masks generally available? I would use them if they were available. I haven't seen them for sale.
Bought 5 of them in Lloyds pharmacy for 10 euro
 

Uganda

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Please explain.

You've got it and sneeze, and back it goes to source.

Where is the new risk entailed?
the thinking is that with non surgical masks, one assumes that if you sneeze/cough the mask contains the droplets

however their study suggests that an “amateur “ mask, maybe ill fitting etc, the droplets can be thrown backwards to the person behind. And if they’re not wearing a mask they could be at risk
 

making waves

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Public transport should be free - and massively expanded to accommodate social distancing.

Masks should also be provided for free - but masks alone do not prevent the spread of the virus.

I do note - as usual - you are focused on the economic aspects of this. The London underground is a petri dish for infection - the Tories are happy to put people's lives at risk by cramming them on public transport so the the elites in their chauffeur driven cars can get back to making profits.

The cost of the necessary expansion of public transport is a tiny fraction of the corporate welfare provided to private companies every year. Dublin still has fewer buses than it did in 1960.
 

Dearghoul

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the thinking is that with non surgical masks, one assumes that if you sneeze/cough the mask contains the droplets

however their study suggests that an “amateur “ mask, maybe ill fitting etc, the droplets can be thrown backwards to the person behind. And if they’re not wearing a mask they could be at risk
Okay, thanks, wasn't getting that 'behind' thing quite right.

I would just suggest however that a projectile moving forward when asked to adjust its trajectory by 360 degrees will lose enough of its impetus to make the wearing of masks still sensible.
 

wombat

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Yeah but backwards?

The idea of masks was, I thought, to not spread it out front.
Sounds far fetched but its amazing the tests people think of - I wonder has such an event ever happened in a hospital?
 

Uganda

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Sounds far fetched but its amazing the tests people think of - I wonder has such an event ever happened in a hospital?
my understanding, and I am not an expert, is that in crowded places (such as public transport) an ill fitting mask may facilitate the back throw of plumes.

but as I say, I am not an expert.

unlike Pat Kenny who is a self proclaimed expert who has no medical expertise whatsoever.
 

wombat

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I'm still wondering if such an event could happen.
Anything is possible but I can't see how any kind of mask would throw particles out through the side gaps far enough to reach someone.
 

Uganda

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Anything is possible but I can't see how any kind of mask would throw particles out through the side gaps far enough to reach someone.
I think it’s a case of doctors differ and patients die.

im not convinced of the efficacy of masks. I’m not against them either, but just not convinced by whatever science there is.

what does tick me off is people like Pat Kenny endlessly lecturing everybody and anybody about masks from a position of sublime ignorance.
 

Watcher2

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The social distancing rule of two metres would make public transport hopelessly uneconomic by reducing capacity by roughly two thirds.To restore a lot of that lost capacity and reduce risks of Covid-19 viral transmission , transport companies should provide free masks at the point of entry to vehicles and locations nearby. Passenger could then be seated on all seats. On the Dublin Luas, a guard on the tram would control entry at a single door that opens,limiting the numbers of passengers to those who could be seated and possibly handing out free masks. Few or no passengers would be allowed to stand in the aisles because it would be very difficult for people to move to and from this single door.
Provision of free masks would be necessary to prevent a minority of irresponsible people from wearing masks beyond the roughly one day time limit of use. At present, the cheapest masks are sold in Lidl in batches of 50 for about 50 euros, a lot of money to people on tight budgets. With their mass purchasing power, transport companies should be able to supply masks at a cost a fraction of that. A government subsidy should be provided in the interest of public health.
An interesting scientific question is the degree of safety provided by masks. The tiny Covid-19 virus can penetrate masks other than the N95 type that stops 95% of viruses.(Because of potential breathing difficulties, medical permissions are required for N95 in many US states.)To infect a person from a cough or a sneeze, the virus would have to exit the mask of the person coughing,travel a few feet and penetrate the mask of another person. The fact that all passengers on London's subway trains are supposed to wear masks suggests two masks are an effective barrier. There is an additional risk of viral transmission from physical contact of passengers seated beside each other as viruses on clothing are transmitted. Viruses on Luas seats and poles could also be transmitted. To prevent that, at each terminus the Luas tram enters it might be necessary to spray the interiors with disinfectant.
Masks don't cover the eyes. Goggles are also required.
 

Watcher2

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Public transport should be free - and massively expanded to accommodate social distancing.

Masks should also be provided for free - but masks alone do not prevent the spread of the virus.

I do note - as usual - you are focused on the economic aspects of this. The London underground is a petri dish for infection - the Tories are happy to put people's lives at risk by cramming them on public transport so the the elites in their chauffeur driven cars can get back to making profits.

The cost of the necessary expansion of public transport is a tiny fraction of the corporate welfare provided to private companies every year. Dublin still has fewer buses than it did in 1960.
Maybe the unions can provide all this free stuff.
 

Patslatt1

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There are risks associated with non surgical masks

Edinburgh university have completed a study showing that plumes can be thrown backwards from non surgical masks
Transport companies would need to test masks for quality of manufacture.
 


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