Freedom 2.0? - Sturgeon announces second Independence Referendum bill consultation



Strawberry

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Brexit gives them their best chance to reverse the result of 2014, otherwise they'd be stuck there for another generation at least. They can sort out their relationship with the EU later.
 

Catalpast

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Looks like things are gathering pace in Scotland. Sturgeon has announced a consultation on a second independence referendum bill.

SNP's Nicola Sturgeon announces new independence referendum bill - BBC News

Could Scotland actually become a free and independent nation or would it be trading being a province in one union for being a province in another?
Good Luck with that!

However did not the last one go down the wrong way 55/45 in favour of staying in the Union?

I don't think it has a chance TBH until Brexit is up and running

- if the UK tanks at that stage then its Game On....
 

Henry94.

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The last time Scotland voted the EU were quite clear that there was no automatic membership and Scotland would have to apply. I wonder is that still the case.

It will be interesting to hear their proposals for a border with England after Brexit.
 

wombat

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The Scottish experience of the UK is completely different to the Irish, they believed themselves to be part of a union which benefited them and they took full part in ruling the British empire. They looked at their current situation and voted according to what they saw as their interests, I doubt they'll change their minds just so that they can apply to join the EU.
 

jmcc

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Good Luck with that!

However did not the last one go down the wrong way 55/45 in favour of staying in the Union?

I don't think it has a chance TBH until Brexit is up and running

- if the UK tanks at that stage then its Game On....
Yep but BREXIT completely screwed up the basis on which the previous referendum was run. Actually it is almost a complete inversion of the position with the Scotland now voting for independence to stay part of the EU whereas previously some of the emphasis was on Scotland not being part of the EU after leaving the UK.
 

jmcc

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The last time Scotland voted the EU were quite clear that there was no automatic membership and Scotland would have to apply. I wonder is that still the case.

It will be interesting to hear their proposals for a border with England after Brexit.
Technically the UK/NI could end up with two land borders with the member states of the EU. :)
 

Dame_Enda

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The polls show they dont want independence. In fact its quite possible that under existing legislation, powers currently exercised pertaining to Scotland by the EU - but not reserved powers for Westminister (e.g. fisheries) - will revert not to Westminister but to the Scottish parliament. Alex Salmond asked about this during the Brexit debate in the Commons yesterday and the answer from Brexit Secretary David Davis was a bit unclear.
 

SilverSpurs

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Looks like things are gathering pace in Scotland. Sturgeon has announced a consultation on a second independence referendum bill.

SNP's Nicola Sturgeon announces new independence referendum bill - BBC News

Could Scotland actually become a free and independent nation or would it be trading being a province in one union for being a province in another?
The mindboggling contradiction from the SNP is that they plan to accede to the EU by parliamentary vote.

Scottish Independence depends upon:
1- Westminster agreeing to a new referendum.
2- The willingness of the EU 27 to accept Scotland.
3- A majority in Scotland willing to end the union with Britain and Northern Ireland.
All of which are unlikely imo.
 

Strawberry

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Technically the UK/NI could end up with two land borders with the member states of the EU. :)
If Scotland goes it makes a united Ireland more likely, so probably just the one border. Unless Wales wakes up and makes a run for it.
 

jmcc

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If Scotland goes it makes a united Ireland more likely, so probably just the one border. Unless Wales wakes up and makes a run for it.
Could even make an Atlantic Confederation trade block a possibility. Removing the IE/UK fishing grounds from the EU could cause a lot of problems for the EU and if Nexit (Netherlands) leaving and a possible Frexit happen in the next five years, then EU will fragment quicker than people expect.
 

Dimples 77

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Brexit gives them their best chance to reverse the result of 2014, otherwise they'd be stuck there for another generation at least. They can sort out their relationship with the EU later.

The result of 2014 can't be reversed, unless the SNP has invented workable time travel.
 

firefly123

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The mindboggling contradiction from the SNP is that they plan to accede to the EU by parliamentary vote.

Scottish Independence depends upon:
1- Westminster agreeing to a new referendum.
2- The willingness of the EU 27 to accept Scotland.
3- A majority in Scotland willing to end the union with Britain and Northern Ireland.
All of which are unlikely imo.
1. If Westminster are not forthcoming I believe they can instigate their own referendum. Might be a bit messier that way and if you are correct on point 3 then they should indulge them.
2. The EU 27 might see it as an excellent way to discourage other nations from jumping ship if GB disintegrates. Also Scotland =oil and fish which will no longer be in the EU soon (unlike the previous referendum when the UK wasn't jumping ship).
3. The EU was staunchly supported in Scotland and they voted unanimously to remain within it. Now that they are bring forced out against their will that 5% might not be too hard to find. Also Scotland is part of Britain. it would be northern Ireland Wales and England.
 

Henry94.

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Of course it would be funny if Scotland had to apply for EU membership and Spain vetoed it but using the second referendum in Scotland as a precedent May re-ran the Brexit referendum and changed the result leaving England in the EU and Scotland out.
 

Strawberry

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Could even make an Atlantic Confederation trade block a possibility. Removing the IE/UK fishing grounds from the EU could cause a lot of problems for the EU and if Nexit (Netherlands) leaving and a possible Frexit happen in the next five years, then EU will fragment quicker than people expect.
There's very little likelihood of that in the next five years. One thing at a time anyway, the first necessary step is to leave the UK. Relationships with each other and the rest of Europe can be better dealt with then.
 

jmcc

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What land border does NI have with Scotland?
Scotland votes for independence and becomes the successor state to the UK in the EU. One land border. NI has a land border with the Republic of Ireland. The UK as the union of England, Wales and Northern Ireland would have a landborder with ROI and the Scotland as members of the EU. Basic political geography.
 

jmcc

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Of course it would be funny if Scotland had to apply for EU membership and Spain vetoed it but using the second referendum in Scotland as a precedent May re-ran the Brexit referendum and changed the result leaving England in the EU and Scotland out.
Mad, isn't it? :)
 

Dimples 77

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Scotland votes for independence and becomes the successor state to the UK in the EU. One land border. NI has a land border with the Republic of Ireland. The UK as the union of England, Wales and Northern Ireland would have a landborder with ROI and the Scotland as members of the EU. Basic political geography.
Your use of the term UK/NI was confusing.
 

midlander12

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If the Scots are really as upset about Brexit as they make out then obviously it is time for them to s**t or get off the pot. I very much doubt anyone in England, least of all the Tories, would shed any tears at their departure (they are no longer an issue for Labour either since the denise of the Scottish Labour Party).

Funnily enough all polls in Scotland since the Brexit referendum indicate they would again vote against independence and are not too enthusiastic about a second vote. Perhaps the inherent contradiction of calling for independence and at the same time craving EU membership has got too much for them. Unless the polls change, I would treat Sturgeon's utterances as populist hot air of the sort we are very used to
in Ireland.
 


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