Freedom 2.0? - Sturgeon announces second Independence Referendum bill consultation

ScoobyDoo

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80% of Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK
10% to the EU
10% to the rest of the world


So Scotland is going to vote out of a Union where 80% of its exports go, where a large proportion of its citizens live, shared language and culture, where it has strong political influence and provided the Prime Minister for large proportion of the last century.....

to enter into another Union where only 10% of its exports go, where less of its citizens live, no land border, no common currency, less sovereignty etc etc?


Good luck with that one Nicola.
 


ScoobyDoo

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80% of Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK
10% to the EU
10% to the rest of the world


So Scotland is going to vote out of a Union where 80% of its exports go, where a large proportion of its citizens live, shared language and culture, where it has strong political influence and provided the Prime Minister for large proportion of the last century.....

to enter into another Union where only 10% of its exports go, where less of its citizens live, no land border, no common currency, less sovereignty etc etc?


Good luck with that one Nicola
 

Hibee

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If the Scots are really as upset about Brexit as they make out then obviously it is time for them to s**t or get off the pot. I very much doubt anyone in England, least of all the Tories, would shed any tears at their departure (they are no longer an issue for Labour either since the denise of the Scottish Labour Party).

Funnily enough all polls in Scotland since the Brexit referendum indicate they would again vote against independence and are not too enthusiastic about a second vote. Perhaps the inherent contradiction of calling for independence and at the same time craving EU membership has got too much for them. Unless the polls change, I would treat Sturgeon's utterances as populist hot air of the sort we are very used to
in Ireland.
The SNP are a single issue rabble party . Utterly odious .
 

cyberianpan

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Sturgeon is a nutter ...Scotland will disintegrate in feuding tribes of sheep shaggers without the English to keep them in line

It would takes decades of intervention with the little 'uns to ready them for independence

I do not want to lose Scotland as it is nice for walks and whisky...feuding sheep shaggers can barely make poitin ...and walks are no fun in full combat gear

cyp
 

popular1

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Nonsense. The Scots voted by a clear majority in favour of staying in the EU.
Well. I can only speak as one brought up in glasgow who still has many friends there with whom i am in regular contact. And who visit maybe every 2 years and is only back from there 2 weeks.
 

DT123

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May should tell them " not a problem, is next week too soon"?

" Knock yourselves out".
 

Strawberry

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Well. I can only speak as one brought up in glasgow who still has many friends there with whom i am in regular contact. And who visit maybe every 2 years and is only back from there 2 weeks.
You should know the referendum result then.
 

Blokesbloke

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Freedom 2.0 eh?

So was the first referendum Freedom 1.0?

Does that mean if a majority in a free and fair democratic vote voted to decide to stay in a union then the people who freely made that decision are not in fact "free"?

What is it with people who cannot accept that if the majority WANT their country to be part of a wider union then their country is be definition free?

So many seem quite happy with EU membership but not UK membership.
 

jmcc

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Freedom 2.0 eh?

So was the first referendum Freedom 1.0?

Does that mean if a majority in a free and fair democratic vote voted to decide to stay in a union then the people who freely made that decision are not in fact "free"?

What is it with people who cannot accept that if the majority WANT their country to be part of a wider union then their country is be definition free?

So many seem quite happy with EU membership but not UK membership.
Missed the Braveheart reference? I really should get some new jokes. :)
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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80% of Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK
10% to the EU
10% to the rest of the world


So Scotland is going to vote out of a Union where 80% of its exports go, where a large proportion of its citizens live, shared language and culture, where it has strong political influence and provided the Prime Minister for large proportion of the last century.....

to enter into another Union where only 10% of its exports go, where less of its citizens live, no land border, no common currency, less sovereignty etc etc?


Good luck with that one Nicola.
A lot of exports go through the UK and onto destinations further afield

According to GERS anyway.
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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Sturgeon is losing a lot of people's respect
She is also losing a lot of the ex labour supporters she inherited
She is turning into a new labour open borders loon
Which I can assure you the scottish working class
Most certainly don't want, what's the point of independence
And Ben being part of hse European Union
Her race is run
Iambic pentameter?
 

flavirostris

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t's a different ballgame this time. Brexit has changed the whole political landscape since the 2014 referendum and the EU is fatally wounded and floundering. Other countries want to go the same way as the Brits.

So I would not expect a Scottish independence referendum to pass.
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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she seems astute. would she have called the referendum today with out assurances of support in Europe?
She hasn't called for one. She's publishing a draft and is calling for consultation.
 

Super Caley

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Freedom 2.0 eh?

So was the first referendum Freedom 1.0?

Does that mean if a majority in a free and fair democratic vote voted to decide to stay in a union then the people who freely made that decision are not in fact "free"?

What is it with people who cannot accept that if the majority WANT their country to be part of a wider union then their country is be definition free?

So many seem quite happy with EU membership but not UK membership.
Good point. The problem seem to be that accepting this causes intolerable cognitive dissonance for those who subscribe to the Irish nationalist myth, bearing in mind that the people of Ireland never actually had a referendum on leaving the UK (1916 and all that).

(BTW The Scottish nationalist myth is similar to the Irish one of course, in that both assume that "freedom" from England to be the supreme goal...... not to be confused with the English nationalist myth of which demands "freedom" from Europe)
 

Super Caley

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Like it or not, Scotland and ourselves are like children caught up in their parents divorce.

We would both really prefer that they (UK and EU) stayed together, but if they do have to split we would rather they did it amicably. We both fear having to make difficult choices between them and in doing so risk falling out with the other.

The only real difference between RoI and Scotland is that we have long since moved out of home as it were, whereas as the Scots are still dithering about doing so.
 

Erudite Caveman

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The last time Scotland voted the EU were quite clear that there was no automatic membership and Scotland would have to apply. I wonder is that still the case.
Hard to see how that would have changed, but the EU is a politicial thing, so where there is a will, there's a way.

It will be interesting to hear their proposals for a border with England after Brexit.
Presumably they would just stay in the CTA like us?

Anyway, I don't think there is a hope of a second indyref passing either. The people for independence the last time may have hardened their opinion, but I cannot see the swing happening. I have a feeling that in a 3rd referendum in a few years, it would be hard to generate the necessary enthusiasm for a push for independence. That said, if I was Scottish, I'd have voted no the last time, but I'd vote yes post-Brexit. But I doubt there are enough people like that.
 

Erudite Caveman

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t's a different ballgame this time. Brexit has changed the whole political landscape since the 2014 referendum and the EU is fatally wounded and floundering. Other countries want to go the same way as the Brits.

So I would not expect a Scottish independence referendum to pass.
The EU is fatally wounded? Have you seen the other guy?
 

Strawberry

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Hard to see how that would have changed, but the EU is a politicial thing, so where there is a will, there's a way.



Presumably they would just stay in the CTA like us?

Anyway, I don't think there is a hope of a second indyref passing either. The people for independence the last time may have hardened their opinion, but I cannot see the swing happening. I have a feeling that in a 3rd referendum in a few years, it would be hard to generate the necessary enthusiasm for a push for independence. That said, if I was Scottish, I'd have voted no the last time, but I'd vote yes post-Brexit. But I doubt there are enough people like that.
I disagree, I think there might very well be enough people like that. Remember the vote wasn't a landslide last time, it was only 55% - 45% split, and the most recent opinion poll has that no lead down to 52% - 48% . If the fall out from Brexit starts to bite and the EU make reassuring noises about keeping Scotland in the single market, I can see that 2014 result being reversed in the next referendum.
 


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