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Freedom of Speech - Prof Jordan Peterson (Second Thread)


ger12

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48,254
Freedom of Speech - Not just another value?

The talk below focuses on the reasons that the right to free speech should be considered in some sense paramount among the intrinsic rights, rather than merely one value among many. Peterson points out that here is no difference between free speech and free thought and without free thought it is impossible to know oneself or the world.

He's a Canadian clinical psychologist and professor of psychology at the University of Toronto and has caused a stir in Canada in recent months after speaking against Bill C-16 objecting to the Canadian government's Bill C-16 which proposed to add "gender identity or expression" as a prohibited ground of discrimination under the Canadian Human Rights Act, as well to the list of identifiable groups against whom it is illegal under the Criminal Code to promote genocide or publicly incite hatred.

His objection to the bill was based on potential free speech implications. He believed if the criminal code was amended, he could then be prosecuted under provincial human rights laws if he refused to call a transsexual student or faculty member by their preferred pronoun. He also argued that it would be possible for employers and organizations to be subject to punishment under the code if any employee or associate says anything that can be construed "directly or indirectly" as offensive, "whether intentionally or unintentionally."

In April 2017 Peterson was denied a Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council grant for the first time in his career which he interpreted as retaliation for his statements regarding Bill C-16.

He's an interesting guy, and has posted a number of lectures on YouTube on a number of topics well worth listening to. He's not a fan of the modern neo-marxist agenda.

https://medium.com/perspectiva-institute/the-man-for-the-times-of-chaos-jordan-peterson-2df43c24672f
Insisting on the truth in times of chaos — Jordan Peterson

[video=youtube;eVvS3L_aBV4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVvS3L_aBV4[/video]
 


Analyzer

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I have seen some of his videos. He is a genius. He has given some very interesting critiques of a wide range of topics.

One of the foremost thinkers of our era.
 

razorblade

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A society without freedom of speech isnt a free society, free speech is essential in a liberal democracy.
 

Analyzer

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I will post some snippets, if I can find those I have seen.
 

Morgellons

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Big fan of JP.

He's very passionate and eloquent. He can be described as a moral conservative and if you watch any of his videos on YouTube you'll see he is genuinely concerned that the herd mentality of the identity politics brigade is likely to lead to a catastrophe on the scale of Soviet communism.

His advice, based on his readings of Nietsche, Jung, Freud and ancient sagas such as the Bible, is that life is brutal-that you have to face up to your responsibilities as a human being, carry your cross, as he puts it, and just get on with things. The dread of chaos is what humans fear most, he says. He despises post modernism and calls for a grounding in tradition. There's lots of clips online with him and I'd recommend people check him out.

He reminds me a lot of David Byrne from talking heads-his looks and the way he talks. Both Canadian too.
 

sultan

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Jun 2, 2011
Messages
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Big fan of JP.

He's very passionate and eloquent. He can be described as a moral conservative and if you watch any of his videos on YouTube you'll see he is genuinely concerned that the herd mentality of the identity politics brigade is likely to lead to a catastrophe on the scale of Soviet communism.

His advice, based on his readings of Nietsche, Jung, Freud and ancient sagas such as the Bible, is that life is brutal-that you have to face up to your responsibilities as a human being, carry your cross, as he puts it, and just get on with things. The dread of chaos is what humans fear most, he says. He despises post modernism and calls for a grounding in tradition. There's lots of clips online with him and I'd recommend people check him out.

He reminds me a lot of David Byrne from talking heads-his looks and the way he talks. Both Canadian too.
Unusually for someone who as an academic has published and co-authored methodologically sound research in top peer reviewed journals he is also a practising clinical psychologist.

He is also very familiar with the publications of some of the foremost philisophers and, in his lectures at the University of Toronto, he links the works of some eminent philosophers with research in psychology and his practical work very coherently. His delivery, in his lectures that are available on YouTube, of difficult concepts is also of high quality.

However, if you are someone who accepts the post modernist approach to trying to understand the world Peterson may greatly annoy you.
 

ger12

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Feb 25, 2011
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48,254
Unusually for someone who as an academic has published and co-authored methodologically sound research in top peer reviewed journals he is also a practising clinical psychologist.

He is also very familiar with the publications of some of the foremost philisophers and, in his lectures at the University of Toronto, he links the works of some eminent philosophers with research in psychology and his practical work very coherently. His delivery, in his lectures that are available on YouTube, of difficult concepts is also of high quality.

However, if you are someone who accepts the post modernist approach to trying to understand the world Peterson may greatly annoy you.
It shouldn't be unusual, rather best practice.
 

GDPR

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He is superficially impressive but on closer examination actually pretty pathetic. His Cold War Liberal Humanism fails on the obvious fact that all the values and things that Cold War Liberal Humanists hailed as uniquely belonging to the "Free World" have since the Soviet Union committed suicide for a variety of reasons have at an ever increasing pace been thrown aside by his precious "Free World". The thing that showed me for definite that he is not a man of good will is praise for and quoting as some sort of authority Solzhenitsyn, a psychopath who admitted cutting the strings of parachutes he was working on during the Great Patriotic War so that those using them would face certain death, and yet waxes lyrical about the evils of anti-Semitism when Solzhenitsyn was the worst type of rabid anti-Semite who laid all the real and imagined evils he saw in Soviet Russia at the feet of the Jews. This makes me wonder whether Prof Jordan Peterson has actually read Solzhenitsyn. Also there is a tone of anxiety and even anger at times in his lectures which should make people ask- Physician heal thyself?
 

GDPR

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I have seen some of his videos. He is a genius. He has given some very interesting critiques of a wide range of topics.

One of the foremost thinkers of our era.
I had respect for you up this. A lot of his advice you have ever taken to time to observe what leads people to a sense of fulfilment in life ply will push them into a direction heading away from that. He is obviously a deeply troubled man himself, and so the obvious question is how can someone by a genius of a psychologist and yet remain himself an obvious nervous wreck? I admire him for standing up to the Transexualist agenda but that is about it. And sorry error by it's very nature cannot have any absolute rights.
 

Mercurial

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Joined
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Messages
88,171
Freedom of Speech - Not just another value?

The talk below focuses on the reasons that the right to free speech should be considered in some sense paramount among the intrinsic rights, rather than merely one value among many. Peterson points out that here is no difference between free speech and free thought and without free thought it is impossible to know oneself or the world.

He's a Canadian clinical psychologist and professor of psychology at the University of Toronto and has caused a stir in Canada in recent months after speaking against Bill C-16 saying he would not use the preferred gender pronouns of students and faculty, objecting to the Canadian government's Bill C-16 which proposed to add "gender identity or expression" as a prohibited ground of discrimination under the Canadian Human Rights Act, as well to the list of identifiable groups against whom it is illegal under the Criminal Code to promote genocide or publicly incite hatred.

His objection to the bill was based on potential free speech implications. He believed if the criminal code was amended, he could then be prosecuted under provincial human rights laws if he refused to call a transsexual student or faculty member by their preferred pronoun. He also argued that it would be possible for employers and organizations to be subject to punishment under the code if any employee or associate says anything that can be construed "directly or indirectly" as offensive, "whether intentionally or unintentionally."

In April 2017 Peterson was denied a Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council grant for the first time in his career which he interpreted as retaliation for his statements regarding Bill C-16.

He's an interesting guy, and has posted a number of lectures on YouTube on a number of topics well worth listening to. He's not a fan of the modern neo-marxist agenda.

https://medium.com/perspectiva-institute/the-man-for-the-times-of-chaos-jordan-peterson-2df43c24672f
Insisting on the truth in times of chaos — Jordan Peterson

[video=youtube;eVvS3L_aBV4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVvS3L_aBV4[/video]

So what exactly are we supposed to discuss?
 

GDPR

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There are depths of immense riches in Nietzsche, but there are also abysses of poisons. I have seen people both greatly gain from Nietzsche and also I have witnessed the destruction of people's character from reading his works. Ideally only certain types of people should be allowed to his works and I'm sorry but Professor Jordan Peterson does not fall into that category.
 

derryman

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I had respect for you up this. A lot of his advice you have ever taken to time to observe what leads people to a sense of fulfilment in life ply will push them into a direction heading away from that. He is obviously a deeply troubled man himself, and so the obvious question is how can someone by a genius of a psychologist and yet remain himself an obvious nervous wreck? I admire him for standing up to the Transexualist agenda but that is about it. And sorry error by it's very nature cannot have any absolute rights.
So , who bit your scone then?
 

GDPR

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Another guy who has made a ton of money from telling snowflakes what they want to hear.
 

Mercurial

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Messages
88,171
Here is a quote from Jordan Peterson that exhibits precisely why no sensible person should take him seriously (and is rather damning of those who have already praised him on this thread):

I will never use words I hate, like the trendy and artificially constructed words "zhe" and "zher." These words are at the vanguard of a post-modern, radical leftist ideology that I detest, and which is, in my professional opinion, frighteningly similar to the Marxist doctrines that killed at least 100 million people in the 20th century.
 

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