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From Greece - a call to arms!


Shqiptar

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Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
6,309
The powers that be in Europe have portrayed the leaders of Ireland, Portugal and Spain as:

studious pupils who listen to their teachers and always hand in their homework on time, properly and neatly done.
By contrast, the Greeks are portrayed as

incorrigible loafers lying under the Greek sun, doing a slow and half-baked job of everything.
The article below goes on to explain how all 4 countries are experiencing high unemployment, emigration etc. despite the strict adherence of the Spanish, Portuguese and Irish to the rule book.

The author concludes:

Nothing separates the PIGS being sent to the slaughter in Europe. In fact, because they share the same problems and the same despots, they ought to coordinate their struggles.
More here:
ekathimerini.com | PIGS being sent to the slaughter
 

commonman

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May 29, 2010
Messages
5,357
We are to soft in this country ,we let the politicians and the bankers walk all over us.
 

Keith-M

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The Greek situation is different from the other three. Their dilemma is caused by the fact that they fraudulently gained access to the Euro, never paid their own way and were rife with corruption to a level that would put a third world country to shame.

Ireland and Spain are predominantly down to property bubbles, which is down to stupidity and lack of governance and Portugal is down to infrastructural over-spending and trying to catch up with decades of neglect in too short a time.
 

Honecker

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Oct 19, 2012
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4,777
I read somewhere that Spain is the only country in the EU never to have breached the terms of the European Stability and Growth Pact. It's now got one of the highest rates of ununemployment int he developed world. EU fiscal and monetary policy doesn't work. Time to tear it up.
 

statsman

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Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
Interesting comment beneath the line on that article.

Unlike the rest of the PIGS, Greece has done nothing positive in the past three years to rectify its situation. The other countries may have also gotten into the same mess, they are however showing signs of improvement; unlike the Greeks.

"We are cast as incorrigible loafers lying under the Greek sun, doing a
slow and half-baked job of everything. " -That's because we are!
"Other than members of Europe’s
South, we are unreliable slobs and we remain in their eyes a part of the
“backward” Balkans – something that we are constantly and increasingly
reminded of." - This is because we mostly act like backward Balkans as opposed to civilised Europeans.
The article itself is long on hyperbolic rhetoric

Nothing separates the PIGS being sent to the slaughter in Europe.
the very skies of Europe’s South have turned black like the souls of the people it covers
Delightfully Old Testament, but hardly a prescription for economic recovery.
 

Shqiptar

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Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
6,309
The Greek situation is different from the other three. Their dilemma is caused by the fact that they fraudulently gained access to the Euro, never paid their own way and were rife with corruption to a level that would put a third world country to shame.

Ireland and Spain are predominantly down to property bubbles, which is down to stupidity and lack of governance and Portugal is down to infrastructural over-spending and trying to catch up with decades of neglect in too short a time.
Agreed. I think there's a wee bit of hubris in that article. The Spanish and Irish situations are quite similar. Portugal's and Italy's** cases are also similar in that both countries let fiscal and competitiveness problems drag on without addressing them. Greece is just another level of dysfunction altogether but I can understand their frustration at experiencing the calamity they're experiencing while trashy tabloids like Bild sneer all the time.


**not included as a PIG here
 

statsman

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Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
The Greek situation is different from the other three. Their dilemma is caused by the fact that they fraudulently gained access to the Euro, never paid their own way and were rife with corruption to a level that would put a third world country to shame.

Ireland and Spain are predominantly down to property bubbles, which is down to stupidity and lack of governance and Portugal is down to infrastructural over-spending and trying to catch up with decades of neglect in too short a time.
Whenever there is a crisis of capital the first question to ask is 'what is being rebalanced?' The PIGS then become something of a diverse group.
 

im axeled

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Nov 24, 2010
Messages
29,724
look folks, this country will never be out of recession again, there has some real beautiful jucy plums to be plucked, this will mean we will have nothing to play with, the banks will get what they want, not what they need, the eu bank has interest rate of almost 0, what rate are the banks charging, some victims are paying roughly 6%, in another twelve months it will be nearly 10. dream on all you dreamers.
 

sport02

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Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
19,656
The longer the unsustanability of Greeces debt continues and the point blank refusal for any OSI, surely now europe and the IMF's culpability in the current Greek situation needs questioning.

Anybody see the clip on the One News today of Juncker changing the goal posts again, only for
the press room to break out in laughter.

Karl Whelan has a good blog today. Basically europe don't get it.
Greek Tragedy Turns to Farce - Forbes
 

Keith-M

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Whenever there is a crisis of capital the first question to ask is 'what is being rebalanced?' The PIGS then become something of a diverse group.
The PIIGs are a diverse group with different reasons for where they are where they are, different priorities in terms of what issue needs to be tackled first and most critically how soon they may be in a place to recover. It's lazy to lump them all together or think there's a single magic bullet that will cure all their problems.

For me Spain should be the #1 priority. It's a big player, unemployment is out of control and it's risking the political unity of the whole country. Portugal and Ireland should come next and Italy should be able to recover itself with a bit of discipline. Greece is a basket case that needs to be cut loose. It's the Anglo of the EU, criminally badly run and can not recover. Time to throw the bad apple out of the barrel.
 

Potatoeman

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Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,827
look folks, this country will never be out of recession again, there has some real beautiful jucy plums to be plucked, this will mean we will have nothing to play with, the banks will get what they want, not what they need, the eu bank has interest rate of almost 0, what rate are the banks charging, some victims are paying roughly 6%, in another twelve months it will be nearly 10. dream on all you dreamers.
What banks? The Irish banks borrowed the money from short-term lenders and are essentially middlemen with many of their customers defaulting.
 

WTTR

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Sep 25, 2009
Messages
5,304
Website
www.johnfhiggins.eu
Agreed. I think there's a wee bit of hubris in that article. The Spanish and Irish situations are quite similar. Portugal's and Italy's** cases are also similar in that both countries let fiscal and competitiveness problems drag on without addressing them. Greece is just another level of dysfunction altogether but I can understand their frustration at experiencing the calamity they're experiencing while trashy tabloids like Bild sneer all the time.


**not included as a PIG here
That's a load of horse manure! It does not matter a damn how each of got into the mess; the fact is that by bowing to the International Financial Buccaneers we are all in the same austerity boats going forward.

The Greeks by all accounts have suffered ferocious wage, salary and pension cuts; massive CS layoffs etc.

It appears that the one thing we all have in common is that the politicians do not lead by showing example! You can be sure that they would choose a different road if they had to take similar massive cuts: 50% and over!
 

Potatoeman

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Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,827
The PIIGs are a diverse group with different reasons for where they are where they are, different priorities in terms of what issue needs to be tackled first and most critically how soon they may be in a place to recover. It's lazy to lump them all together or think there's a single magic bullet that will cure all their problems.

For me Spain should be the #1 priority. It's a big player, unemployment is out of control and it's risking the political unity of the whole country. Portugal and Ireland should come next and Italy should be able to recover itself with a bit of discipline. Greece is a basket case that needs to be cut loose. It's the Anglo of the EU, criminally badly run and can not recover. Time to throw the bad apple out of the barrel.
Greece doesn’t seem to want to wake up to its own economic reality. I think many Irish people accept that the property market was a sham and we need higher taxes to fund our day to day running. The people in denial are those dependent on generous state wages, contracts or handouts.
 

Keith-M

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www.allkindsofeverything.ie
Greece doesn’t seem to want to wake up to its own economic reality.
Nor will they until the Germans cut off the money supply. It's time for "tough love".

I think many Irish people accept that the property market was a sham and we need higher taxes to fund our day to day running.
No, it's time to stop throwing away money like confetti at a wedding, Cut spending first. Then see if you need tax increases. Don't continue to waste money.

The people in denial are those dependent on generous state wages, contracts or handouts.
No dispute there.
 

Twin Towers

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Oct 14, 2005
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5,885
The Greek situation is different from the other three. Their dilemma is caused by the fact that they fraudulently gained access to the Euro, never paid their own way and were rife with corruption to a level that would put a third world country to shame.
Yep. it's easy to be so smug. The vast majority of ordinary Greeks that are suffering today are no more responsible for what happened to their country than the vast majority of ordinary Irish people are responsible for what happened here.

Just like Ireland those that can be blamed are sitting pretty and leaving the innocent to carry the can.
 

WTTR

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www.johnfhiggins.eu
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

The PIGS should bandy together to present a united front to the creditors (some of whom are "partners" apparently) whose policies are driving their economies further off a cliff...

I'd say that was prudent.

The European message, since the crises kicked off in each country, has been that we're different, the situation in each member-state economy and their subsequent crash share no commonalities. Well it's horesh!t imo.

Also, giving out about Greek corruption from an Irish perspective is nonsensical. Who exactly is any Irish person to criticise other states on corruption?
 

Fractional Reserve

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Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
8,326
Right in what you are saying Keith , but we have a serious welfare state that expensive to run and more dependents on it are added day in day out .We are in the same situation now as Greece .
The Greek situation is different from the other three. Their dilemma is caused by the fact that they fraudulently gained access to the Euro, never paid their own way and were rife with corruption to a level that would put a third world country to shame.

Ireland and Spain are predominantly down to property bubbles, which is down to stupidity and lack of governance and Portugal is down to infrastructural over-spending and trying to catch up with decades of neglect in too short a time.
 

kryton101

Active member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
108
The powers that be in Europe have portrayed the leaders as.....
It was the powers of Europe that hurried Greece into the arms of Europe and failed to spot massively cooked books and then threw money at them as if it was going out of fashion.

The Greeks are not perfect but its like one child blaming the other for a broken toy. Both were playing happily with it until it got broke. Then the fingers come out and the crying starts.

When we turn our backs against Greece we create a division that political leaders can widen and exploit. A diveded people are easily controlled and manipulated.

Right now the rest of Europe is being led down a path of learning to 'hate' the greeks. Those lazy good for nothings. A focul point for all our hatred and gets the rest of the naughty kids off the hook. It is bad for all of us when that happens.

The greek people were victims just like we were. They had bad leaders and bad banks like we had. The real criminals and those responsible are deep in the shadows probably enjoying the way we are turning on each other.
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

It was the powers of Europe that hurried Greece into the arms of Europe and failed to spot massively cooked books and then threw money at them as if it was going out of fashion.

The Greeks are not perfect but its like one child blaming the other for a broken toy. Both were playing happily with it until it got broke. Then the fingers come out and the crying starts.

When we turn our backs against Greece we create a division that political leaders can widen and exploit. A diveded people are easily controlled and manipulated.

Right now the rest of Europe is being led down a path of learning to 'hate' the greeks. Those lazy good for nothings. A focul point for all our hatred and gets the rest of the naughty kids off the hook. It is bad for all of us when that happens.

The greek people were victims just like we were. They had bad leaders and bad banks like we had. The real criminals and those responsible are deep in the shadows probably enjoying the way we are turning on each other.
+1.

Our own Messer Kenny was even used as a stick to beat Greece with in an interview with Germany's BILD.
 
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