From Russia with....decriminalising domestic violence

Casablanca

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Russia, in a Bill which has passed it's first reading in the Duma, is planning to change the first incidence of domestic violence reported from a criminal to an administrative offence, similar to a parking fine.

To put this in context, it is estimated that 36,000 women are assaulted in Russia every day and about 10,000 die every year from the effects. Historically, Russian society has a lax attitude to this with a popular old saying translating as "if he beats you, he loves you".

The relaxation of the law is being driven by Yelena Mizulina who was also behind the "gay propaganda" law of a few years ago. In an interview, she suggests that changes made by the Supreme Court a year ago, which made domestic abuse a criminal matter, interfere with traditional cultural norms saying “in Russian traditional families, the relationship between parents and their children is built on authority and power”.

The amendment would decriminalise any violence that does not cause serious medical harm, which is defined as requiring hospital treatment. Beatings that leave bruises, scratches or bleeding but do not leave lasting negative health effects such as broken bones or concussion will no longer be criminal. If there is a second beating within a year, however, the case can be made a criminal one. The change proposed would apply to spouses, elderly relatives and children.

At his Christmas news conference, when asked about the proposed change, President Putin said it was better not to use violence at all, noting that “there’s too little distance between a spanking and a beating”. He agreed, however, that “unceremonious interference with the family is impermissible”.

Full story from The Guardian here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/19/russian-soften-domestic-violence-law-decriminalise-womens-rights

This raises so many issues regarding Russian society and indeed the broader attitudes toward women and children within marriage that I felt it worthy of a thread.
 
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ger12

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This is being driven by a woman? :shock:

I can't see culture trumping a SC finding.
 

Casablanca

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This is being driven by a woman? :shock:
That is one of the many ironies in this peculiar story. It is also to be noted that Putin has long portrayed himself as a particular protector and role model for Russian children, well male ones anyway.
 

Casablanca

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I can't see culture trumping a SC finding.
I think in Russia, the key to whether a law comes into force or nor, lies more with the President than with the Court. If it garners his support, as it seems to be doing, then it will become law.
 

Polly Ticks

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Unreal. Hard to get the head around this proposal... may as well go the whole hog and bring in sharia law!

Two of the world's 'great powers' appear to going backwards right now.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Is this that far removed from the "I was slapped when I was growing up and it did me no harm" attitude oft expressed in Ireland over the years, and particularly recently when smacking children was finally made illegal? Treating them as possessions, guiding them with the hand...for their own good, of course
 

Casablanca

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Unreal. Hard to get the head around this proposal... may as well go the whole hog and bring in sharia law!

Two of the world's 'great powers' appear to going backwards right now.
There's a much bigger discussion than this thread to be had about the movements to the the right and "traditional values" across the Western World ( if we accept that Russia is part of the Western World). But certainly this appears to be a particularly daft and dangerous move.
 

Casablanca

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Is this that far removed from the "I was slapped when I was growing up and it did me no harm" attitude oft expressed in Ireland over the years, and particularly recently when smacking children was finally made illegal? Treating them as possessions, guiding them with the hand...for their own good, of course
I suppose it's a logical(?) extension of that viewpoint alright. But even allowing for that, and the tradition of domestic violence within marriage in Russia, it seems to be particularly ethos driven proposition in a country where there are 36,000 incidents of domestic violence suggested to be happening EVERY day.
 

Casablanca

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That is the key part of your post. The Guardian, a sick, sectarian, Russophobic, pro war false news rag
So, which parts of the OP are untrue? Given that President Putin himself answered questions on the proposed law in December, we may assume that there is an actual proposal. If there is something incorrect in the detail of what's being proposed, given that the quotes are from the lady proposing it, then I'm sure posters will be anxious to learn of it.

A number of other news outlets seems to be reporting it too:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38595993
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-12/how-russia-decided-to-allow-a-little-domestic-violence
http://time.com/4632624/russia-putin-domestic-violence-decriminalize-women-children-abuse/
 
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ShoutingIsLeadership

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I suppose it's a logical(?) extension of that viewpoint alright. But even allowing for that, and the tradition of domestic violence within marriage in Russia, it seems to be particularly ethos driven proposition in a country where there are 36,000 incidents of domestic violence suggested to be happening EVERY day.


The equivalent would be about 900 per day in Ireland. About 300 of them in Dublin.

Seems to me that their Supreme Court - much like in Ireland - attempted to assume the role of social reformer.

Obviously this law would be a very retrograde step...but perhaps many countries are at different stages of similar journeys?
 

derryman

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I suppose it's a logical(?) extension of that viewpoint alright. But even allowing for that, and the tradition of domestic violence within marriage in Russia, it seems to be particularly ethos driven proposition in a country where there are 36,000 incidents of domestic violence suggested to be happening EVERY day.
Just asking how does that 36000 in a 143million equate with the percentage in Ireland?
 

Casablanca

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The equivalent would be about 900 per day in Ireland. About 300 of them in Dublin.

Seems to me that their Supreme Court - much like in Ireland - attempted to assume the role of social reformer.

Obviously this law would be a very retrograde step...but perhaps many countries are at different stages of similar journeys?
All true. But the notion of countries being at different stages of development is undermined by the fact that, in this case, it is not a slowness to protect women at risk, but rather a reversal of existing laws.

An interesting take from one set of statistics produced in Russia in 2008 by the Ministry of Internal Affairs is that violence takes place in about one in four families and that alcohol abuse, which is also very high there, is considered the main contributory factor.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Statistics



" Domestic violence is not a crime under Irish law and so it continues to be dealt with, not as a serious offence, but as a lesser matter even though our research tells us that women are being threatened with their lives daily.”

Is that correct?
 

Analyzer

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This is a retrogade step in Russian society, where a substantial proportion of the male population are on mind altrring substsnces, particularly alcohol.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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All true. But the notion of countries being at different stages of development is undermined by the fact that, in this case, it is not a slowness to protect women at risk, but rather a reversal of existing laws.

An interesting take from one set of statistics produced in Russia in 2008 by the Ministry of Internal Affairs is that violence takes place in about one in four families and that alcohol abuse, which is also very high there, is considered the main contributory factor.


Just thinking, in Ireland there seems to be a culture of not reversing laws, even if those in power objected to them when they were enacted while they were in opposition. The US differs, in that regard, somewhat. Not sure where Russia fits in there, given the authoritarian nature of the country
 

Casablanca

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Statistics



" Domestic violence is not a crime under Irish law and so it continues to be dealt with, not as a serious offence, but as a lesser matter even though our research tells us that women are being threatened with their lives daily.”

Is that correct?
My understanding is that, in Irish Law, violence and assault are the same regardless of the context or location. So, I'm not sure how it's dealt with as a lesser matter, but I'm open to correction. In my own (limited) experience of the issue, seeing it a house close to where I worked at one stage, the issue was treated very seriously. But a recurring story is the amount of victims who withdraw charges because of fear of the abuser, the court system or the attitude of society.

The Russian change would seem to stack the deck even higher against the victim.
 


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