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FT Editorial on Bankers Pensions: Dublin's shame


SKELLY

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
3,120
Alot is mentioned on this site about how the rest of the world views our so called "recovery" and alot has been said of Kenny's Time magazine and his recent "award" for being a good little paddy.
To add insult to injury he proclaimed he was doing it on my behalf.
The man is devoid of leadership.

The apologists should however note this article which appeared in the Financial Times yesterday entitled "Dublin's shame"

So far, however, the bank directors’ reaction has been underwhelming. One former manager – Eugene Sheehy, who used to run AIB – has said that he will reduce his payments by a fifth – a smaller concession than Mr Goodwin’s. The others have yet to respond publicly. If they had an ounce of shame, they would go at least as far as Mr Goodwin did.

Mr Sheehy and his colleagues should think long and hard about their response, however. Ireland is a small country; their moral debts are huge. While a pension cut may not be enough to salvage their honour, failure to act will guarantee their status as pariahs.
Ireland is the laughing stock of the Financial World. The wild west of Finance.
Anyone remember the traders laughing during Lenihans conference call?
That wasnt an isolated incident. I know a few people who work in the city and yes we are the laughing stock of the world.
 

storybud1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
6,741
Alot is mentioned on this site about how the rest of the world views our so called "recovery" and alot has been said of Kenny's Time magazine and his recent "award" for being a good little paddy.
To add insult to injury he proclaimed he was doing it on my behalf.
The man is devoid of leadership.

The apologists should however note this article which appeared in the Financial Times yesterday entitled "Dublin's shame"






Ireland is the laughing stock of the Financial World. The wild west of Finance.
Anyone remember the traders laughing during Lenihans conference call?
That wasnt an isolated incident. I know a few people who work in the city and yes we are the laughing stock of the world.
Whats this "We" business? the insiders are the robbing us blind, NAMA, politicians, bankers, the usual greedy rats that have been robbing for thousands of years, what we have to be mindful is our raw materials and our potential for growth in the coming decades.

Traders are just obscene gamblers, they are the last people anyone should listen to for advice.
 

odlum

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May 29, 2007
Messages
4,159
I read the ft every day and while articles on Ireland are few and far between most are positive about the country's recovery particularly in comparison to our bailout peers. The alphaville blog is also often positive in commentary particularly when it comes to our exports.
 

Mattarigna

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Oct 20, 2012
Messages
5,135
I read the ft every day and while articles on Ireland are few and far between most are positive about the country's recovery particularly in comparison to our bailout peers. The alphaville blog is also often positive in commentary particularly when it comes to our exports.
A stagnant economy is hardly an achievement.
 

odlum

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Messages
4,159
A stagnant economy is hardly an achievement.

But Ireland's growth rate, while low, is still more than most European countries. Also Ireland is not in recession contrary to popular belief. It's avoided recession so far this year. If you compare Ireland with Greece or Portugal or Spain (all in deep recession) it's economy is showing a better resilience in key growth areas particularly on the export side. Irish exports are at record highs and that's the key to getting out of this. Ireland is showing a dynamism that the others are not. That is partly due to it's small size but also it has competitive advantages coming through.

This takes time to filter in to the employment statistics.
 

Mattarigna

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Oct 20, 2012
Messages
5,135
But Ireland's growth rate, while low, is still more than most European countries. Also Ireland is not in recession contrary to popular belief. It's avoided recession so far this year. If you compare Ireland with Greece or Portugal or Spain (all in deep recession) it's economy is showing a better resilience in key growth areas particularly on the export side. Irish exports are at record highs and that's the key to getting out of this. Ireland is showing a dynamism that the others are not. That is partly due to it's small size but also it has competitive advantages coming through.

This takes time to filter in to the employment statistics.
Only a muppet seriously thinks that GDP is an accurate measure of growth into the Republic of Ireland, which is usually the measure for economic growth that used, even though EVERYONE knows that it is inaccurate. Consumer confidence has not improved, and the retail sector is collapsing. It's not as rosey of a picture as some like to paint it. Granted, we are not on the verge of anarchy, but to say that we have "recovered" is extremely premature. If we can even get unemployment down below 14%, then yes, that would be justification to say that we are making a serious comeback. Anything else is triumpism, pure and simple, and it's actually extremely arragant of an attitude to take, when the vast majority of people living in the real world are seeing things get worse, not better. Less than 0.5% of GNP growth and 0.1% decreases of unemployment(more to do with emigration than anything else) is effective stagnation, NOTHING ELSE.
 
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M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

But Ireland's growth rate, while low, is still more than most European countries. Also Ireland is not in recession contrary to popular belief. It's avoided recession so far this year. If you compare Ireland with Greece or Portugal or Spain (all in deep recession) it's economy is showing a better resilience in key growth areas particularly on the export side. Irish exports are at record highs and that's the key to getting out of this. Ireland is showing a dynamism that the others are not. That is partly due to it's small size but also it has competitive advantages coming through.

This takes time to filter in to the employment statistics.
GDP is stagnant compared to the last quarter according to the CSO (0.0%).

How does 0% amount to "growth"?

Here's a graph to help us along...


Mind you, I see GNP grew 4.3% which would, at first glance, offer some hope

But David McNamara of Davy had this to say on the GNP figure...

GNP jumped a massive 4.3% on the quarter, mainly due to declining factor outflows as multinationals repatriated profits to Ireland. As this could easily unwind in Q3, we cannot infer any upturn in the domestic economy from the GNP rise.
Tis a good article with some interesting comments.



Edit: My apologies to the OP for going off-topic.
 

Mattarigna

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Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
5,135
GDP is stagnant compared to the last quarter according to the CSO (0.0%).

How does 0% amount to "growth"?

Here's a graph to help us along...


Mind you, I see GNP grew 4.3% which would, at first glance, offer some hope

But David McNamara of Davy had this to say on the GNP figure...



Tis a good article with some interesting comments.



Edit: My apologies to the OP for going off-topic.
Odlum, care to give us your FF party spin?
 

R3volution_R3ady

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Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,370
The country is focked beyond repair. If you're young, get out.

If you fancy staying and are willing to put up with the shite of the next 10 years, then vote for a fiscally conservative party and no, not FG...I said fiscally conservative small government party....when one arises.
 

odlum

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Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
4,159
Only a muppet seriously thinks that GDP is an accurate measure of growth into the Republic of Ireland, which is usually the measure for economic growth that used, even though EVERYONE knows that it is inaccurate. Consumer confidence has not improved, and the retail sector is collapsing. It's not as rosey of a picture as some like to paint it. Granted, we are not on the verge of anarchy, but to say that we have "recovered" is extremely premature. If we can even get unemployment down below 14%, then yes, that would be justification to say that we are making a serious comeback. Anything else is triumpism, pure and simple, and it's actually extremely arragant of an attitude to take, when the vast majority of people living in the real world are seeing things get worse, not better. Less than 0.5% of GNP growth and 0.1% decreases of unemployment(more to do with emigration than anything else) is effective stagnation, NOTHING ELSE.


I never mentioned unemployment. I never specifically mentioned GDP either. Mind you I prefer to see it growing than shrinking. I am stating fact that Ireland is doing better than the other peripheral countries. Unemployment will always lag. Like the late 80's - jobless growth but eventually exports filter through and employment rises. Ireland is the only country in the Eurozone where manufacturing output and employment is increasing as the October PMI numbers showed



On those numbers I have little doubt Ireland has avoided recession in the 3rd quarter.

And the people that matter - those that will have to give us money in the market see this. That is why Irish government bond yields have fallen below Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece and Irish credit default swaps are below them as well.

The way I look at it you can be depressed and one of those "the world is going to end why bother?" types (and there are many of those in this country) or you can take a level headed view of where the country is and it's route out of it. Ireland is doing the right thing (there are some things I would do differently like scrap the CPA for example) - it's a tough slog for some but we will be out of this before the other peripherals and we will be a stronger, more efficient, more competitive, more credible, more mature country after it.
 
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kellboy

Active member
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
198
The way I look at it you can be depressed and one of those "the world is going to end why bother?" types (and there are many of those in this country) or you can take a level headed view of where the country is and it's route out of it. Ireland is doing the right thing (there are some things I would do differently like scrap the CPA for example) - it's a tough slog for some but we will be out of this before the other peripherals and we will be a stronger, more efficient, more competitive, more credible, more mature country after it.[/QUOTE]

this country is incapable of change... totally incapable

scrapping CPA will only really affect the already squeezed lower/frontline nurses/cops/civies


top layer civies are nearly untouchable, so the way it's gone so far is let one pen pusher @ €350,000 per year or 10-12 nurses €35k go, the 10 frontline get it

over odds rent/mortgages in dublin will still consume €200+/week

Auz and Canada are now getting our mid class taxpaying families, tax/spend base is falling thro the floor, not to mention the community losing the family four local spend

importing min wage workers is resulting to further depletion of the tax base, and they are understandably oversharing a tiny phibs flat, same as the polish lads 10yrs ago

so yes.... we have turned a corner

again
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

Alot is mentioned on this site about how the rest of the world views our so called "recovery" and alot has been said of Kenny's Time magazine and his recent "award" for being a good little paddy.
To add insult to injury he proclaimed he was doing it on my behalf.
The man is devoid of leadership.

The apologists should however note this article which appeared in the Financial Times yesterday entitled "Dublin's shame"






Ireland is the laughing stock of the Financial World. The wild west of Finance.
Anyone remember the traders laughing during Lenihans conference call?
That wasnt an isolated incident. I know a few people who work in the city and yes we are the laughing stock of the world.
Dublin's Shame indeed.

There's only one comment on that article and it links to a blog here and it is an eye-opener (at least for me) and heaps plenty more shame upon 'Dublin' and the Irish media. It also possibly answers some of the questions we've all been asking recently in relation to the (apparently) powerlessness of ministers, vested interests, the failings of the state etc...

Tis worth a read.
 

Boy M5

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Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
21,731
I read the ft every day and while articles on Ireland are few and far between most are positive about the country's recovery particularly in comparison to our bailout peers. The alphaville blog is also often positive in commentary particularly when it comes to our exports.
I read it every day too. I don't know what articles are cut out before its given to you.
The FT and Alphaville are sophisticated enough to point out that the debt GNP metric is the important one, that we need a deal on our bank debt. In fact it said so in an editorial.

The FT piece is in fact from today's editorial.

I would advise most on here to register on their website. Its free and you can access I think a dozen pieces a month. Alphaville is free.

The FT is a world business newspaper. Its not establishment UK like the Times or particularly the Torygraph. Its an objective paper.

The Ireland correspondent Jamie Smyth is Irish, a decent hack and has a # of pieces published every month. his predecessor wan't much cop. Hardly ever had anything published. I never recall him questioning the bubble.

There are other Irish hacks notably Vincent Boland of the Lex column and also the peerless Gillian Tett who has Irish antecedents.
 

Boy M5

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May 20, 2010
Messages
21,731
Is Odlum Jim Power?
 

Crazy horse 6

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
13,515
Alot is mentioned on this site about how the rest of the world views our so called "recovery" and alot has been said of Kenny's Time magazine and his recent "award" for being a good little paddy.
To add insult to injury he proclaimed he was doing it on my behalf.
The man is devoid of leadership.

The apologists should however note this article which appeared in the Financial Times yesterday entitled "Dublin's shame"






Ireland is the laughing stock of the Financial World. The wild west of Finance.
Anyone remember the traders laughing during Lenihans conference call?
That wasnt an isolated incident. I know a few people who work in the city and yes we are the laughing stock of the world.
We are in total denial if we think the Europeans or anyone else for that matter respects us. Ask anyone from Germany,France,Holland etc... what they think of the Irish and they will tell you one thing to your face but behind your back another. As a people we deserve it.
 

Crazy horse 6

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Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
13,515
But Ireland's growth rate, while low, is still more than most European countries. Also Ireland is not in recession contrary to popular belief. It's avoided recession so far this year. If you compare Ireland with Greece or Portugal or Spain (all in deep recession) it's economy is showing a better resilience in key growth areas particularly on the export side. Irish exports are at record highs and that's the key to getting out of this. Ireland is showing a dynamism that the others are not. That is partly due to it's small size but also it has competitive advantages coming through.

This takes time to filter in to the employment statistics.
Listen until unemployment falls to at least 7% the government has failed. At this point they are failing and showing no signs whatsoever of addressing the problem. Long term unemployment is growing at a frightening rate and this in itself is unacceptable. Time for a change of government imo.
 

Burnout

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Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
7,275
Twitter
I have a life.
Is this what we voted for? inaction, incompetence and spinless neglect of the eldery?

THE Government is still trying to find a way in the Budget of cutting the €500,000-plus salaries paid to senior bankers. But there is considerable doubt about whether it will be able to take any action.

Finance Minister Michael Noonan has confirmed that three of the NAMA 168 developers will receive salaries of more than €200,000. A further 25 will retain salaries of between €150,000 and €190,000. Mr Noonan confirmed that a further 38 will be paid a salary of between €100,000 and €149,000 this year.

AN elderly man has to be put to bed by his home helps at 3pm because there is no evening service.
 

He3

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Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,094
Dublin's Shame indeed.

There's only one comment on that article and it links to a blog here and it is an eye-opener (at least for me) and heaps plenty more shame upon 'Dublin' and the Irish media. It also possibly answers some of the questions we've all been asking recently in relation to the (apparently) powerlessness of ministers, vested interests, the failings of the state etc...

Tis worth a read.
Thanks for that link.
 

Mattarigna

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Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
5,135
The way I look at it you can be depressed and one of those "the world is going to end why bother?" types (and there are many of those in this country) or you can take a level headed view Ireland is doing the right thing (there are some things I would do differently like scrap the CPA for example) - it's a tough slog for some but we will be out of this before the other peripherals and we will be a stronger, more efficient, more competitive, more credible, more mature country after it.
Or you could be the realistic type that can tell the difference between stagnation and recovery. And we are stagnating at the moment, which is back up by the figures, 100%. Don't make a fool of yourself by arguing otherwise, because I have statistics and real world experience on my side.

Finally, where's the contradiction between being pessimistic about our current "recovery" and taking a "level-headed view of where the country is and it's route out of it."? There is no contradiction. I am taking a level-headed, objective view of the economy - and the conclusion that I've come to is that there is nothing to be optimistic about yet, and that our governments, both FF/Greens and FG/Lab, are taking the wrong approach. Our unusually large presence of Multinationals majorly fecks up a lot of the figures, making it seem that our economy is growing, even though domestic demand is going through the floor(a statistic that you conveniently ignored). Some recovery. :roll:
 
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Mattarigna

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Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
5,135
Listen until unemployment falls to at least 7% the government has failed. At this point they are failing and showing no signs whatsoever of addressing the problem. Long term unemployment is growing at a frightening rate and this in itself is unacceptable. Time for a change of government imo.
In fairness, I would be happy if any government could achieve a fall of unemployment to under 10% by 2016.
 
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