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Further evidence of the failure of Socialism - Tsipras concedes defeat in Greek election.

davidcameron

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Greece's Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has conceded defeat in the country's snap general election.
Centre-right opposition party New Democracy, led by Kyriakos Mitsotakis, are closing in on a dramatic win.
They have 39.7% of the vote so far, with Mr Tsipras's leftist Syriza party in second place with 31.6%.
The current projections would give New Democracy an outright majority, as the winner receives 50 extra seats in parliament.
Greek voters punished the centre-right last time around even though it was simply trying to solve the problems that the left-wing party PASOK created. They voted for Syriza, but Tsipras turned out to be a useless prime minister.

Now, Tsipras's career is over.

This result is further evidence of the failure of Socialism (in addition to the Venezuela crisis). It is proof that the centrists were right all along.

PS: I've searched this site but there didn't seem to be a thread on this election before I posted this OP.
 


Dame_Enda

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RTE presenting it instead as a defeat for "populism".
 

midlander12

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Greek voters punished the centre-right last time around even though it was simply trying to solve the problems that the left-wing party PASOK created. They voted for Syriza, but Tsipras turned out to be a useless prime minister.

Now, Tsipras's career is over.

This result is further evidence of the failure of Socialism (in addition to the Venezuela crisis). It is proof that the centrists were right all along.

PS: I've searched this site but there didn't seem to be a thread on this election before I posted this OP.
Very good news indeed, though in fairness New Democracy were every bit as culpable as PASOK in creating the fiscal and economic meltdown of 2010. Syriza however turned out to be the most two-faced bunch of opportunists to ever fly the red flag, and that's saying something. Good riddance, and hopefully their grim term in office will deter other countries tempted to take the far-left route. I also hope their former comrades in Sinn Fein have sent a delegation to help them drown their sorrows, and also of course to ensure that the Greek electoral process is as free and fair as Venezuela, the last election they 'monitored'.

Even better news that Golden Dawn appear to have collapsed and fallen below the 3% threshold, though some of their support was taken by another far-right party which got through.

Euronews have a map in this link showing the winning party in each area - Syriza appear to have won only on Crete and in 4 mainland regions.

 

davidcameron

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Very good news indeed, though in fairness New Democracy were every bit as culpable as PASOK in creating the fiscal and economic meltdown of 2010. Syriza however turned out to be the most two-faced bunch of opportunists to ever fly the red flag, and that's saying something. Good riddance, and hopefully their grim term in office will deter other countries tempted to take the far-left route. I also hope their former comrades in Sinn Fein have sent a delegation to help them drown their sorrows, and also of course to ensure that the Greek electoral process is as free and fair as Venezuela, the last election they 'monitored'.

Even better news that Golden Dawn appear to have collapsed and fallen below the 3% threshold, though some of their support was taken by another far-right party which got through.

Euronews have a map in this link showing the winning party in each area - Syriza appear to have won only on Crete and in 4 mainland regions.

How was New Democracy just as culpable?
 

owedtojoy

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Greek voters punished the centre-right last time around even though it was simply trying to solve the problems that the left-wing party PASOK created. They voted for Syriza, but Tsipras turned out to be a useless prime minister.

Now, Tsipras's career is over.

This result is further evidence of the failure of Socialism (in addition to the Venezuela crisis). It is proof that the centrists were right all along.

PS: I've searched this site but there didn't seem to be a thread on this election before I posted this OP.
I think the OP title is nonsense.

This is a defeat for a political party in a Democratic election in one country that has been through a long and punishing economic crisis. An economic crisis, by the way, brought about by corrupt neo-liberal capitalism (and other factors).

Alexis Tsipras was faced with the unenviable task of steering Greece through its worst crisis in 50 years, since the regime of the Colonels was overthrown. I think historians will say the lad did good.

The Greek economy has got itself back to a modest level of growth, so it is not surprising voters might be impatient and desire a change.

Greek Economic Growth Rate: for the last 10 years.

greece-gdp-growth-annual.png
 

ruserious

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It’s just politics as normal. Government parties in most countries (with notable exception to Ireland) tend to come from the right and left in alternate electoral cycles.
 

owedtojoy

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Very good news indeed, though in fairness New Democracy were every bit as culpable as PASOK in creating the fiscal and economic meltdown of 2010. Syriza however turned out to be the most two-faced bunch of opportunists to ever fly the red flag, and that's saying something. Good riddance, and hopefully their grim term in office will deter other countries tempted to take the far-left route. I also hope their former comrades in Sinn Fein have sent a delegation to help them drown their sorrows, and also of course to ensure that the Greek electoral process is as free and fair as Venezuela, the last election they 'monitored'.

Even better news that Golden Dawn appear to have collapsed and fallen below the 3% threshold, though some of their support was taken by another far-right party which got through.

Euronews have a map in this link showing the winning party in each area - Syriza appear to have won only on Crete and in 4 mainland regions.

Jeez, remember 5 years ago when Golden Dawn were looking like The Future of Greece? I would see this as a triumph for democracy, not capitalism.

The Greek people seem to have retained Common Sense through all this.

A friend who worked in the Dept of Social Welfare came out of retirement to join a team of consultants working with the Greeks on their Social Welfare system.

Coming from Ireland, he thought he was unshockable, but he was appalled at some of the practices he found. An almost universal aversion to paying taxes, but a sense of entitlement to public money from anyone who worked in the civil service e.g. "early retirements", featherbedding, full pay for 0 work ... in the end, he thought the Germans were right to stick it to the Greeks, though that might be arising from job frustrations!

His wife told me you took different routes through Athens based on where daily protests were going on.. No day went by without a protest march or meeting, so if you saw one, you just changed to a parallel street and continued on.

Greece has been through a very unhappy period, which hopefully is coming to an end.
 

luggage

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That would be the same New Democracy Party as 2007, who had a second term?

Parliamentary elections were held in Greece on Sunday, September 16, 2007, to elect the 300 members of the Hellenic Parliament. The leading party for a second term was New Democracy under the leadership of Kostas Karamanlis with 41.83%, followed by George Papandreou and Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) with 38.10%. New Democracy managed to secure an absolute but narrow majority of 152 out of 300 parliament seats. The populist Popular Orthodox Rally entered the parliament for the first time with 10 seats, while the parties of the left, the Communist Party of Greece (KKE) and the Coalition of the Radical Left (SYRIZA), enjoyed a significant increase in their votes. KKE got 8.15% of the votes (from 5.89) and secured 22 parliament seats (from 12) and SYRIZA got 5.04% of the votes (+1.78%) and 14 seats.

The OP shows his ignorance of the situation in Greece both prior to the Financial crash, and post crash. It was Centralist Governments that were in power when the crash happened.
 

Uganda

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Greek voters punished the centre-right last time around even though it was simply trying to solve the problems that the left-wing party PASOK created. They voted for Syriza, but Tsipras turned out to be a useless prime minister.

Now, Tsipras's career is over.

This result is further evidence of the failure of Socialism (in addition to the Venezuela crisis). It is proof that the centrists were right all along.

PS: I've searched this site but there didn't seem to be a thread on this election before I posted this OP.
I wonder what Peerse Doherty will make of all this?

Wasn't he out there in solidarity with them a while back shooting his gob off about how we should emulate their policies?

If anyone listened to him they'd hardly vote for SF today.

Oh, wait, the voters are disappearing in their droves.
 

midlander12

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That would be the same New Democracy Party as 2007, who had a second term?

Parliamentary elections were held in Greece on Sunday, September 16, 2007, to elect the 300 members of the Hellenic Parliament. The leading party for a second term was New Democracy under the leadership of Kostas Karamanlis with 41.83%, followed by George Papandreou and Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) with 38.10%. New Democracy managed to secure an absolute but narrow majority of 152 out of 300 parliament seats. The populist Popular Orthodox Rally entered the parliament for the first time with 10 seats, while the parties of the left, the Communist Party of Greece (KKE) and the Coalition of the Radical Left (SYRIZA), enjoyed a significant increase in their votes. KKE got 8.15% of the votes (from 5.89) and secured 22 parliament seats (from 12) and SYRIZA got 5.04% of the votes (+1.78%) and 14 seats.

The OP shows his ignorance of the situation in Greece both prior to the Financial crash, and post crash. It was Centralist Governments that were in power when the crash happened.
That is entirely correct. New Democracy and PASOK were the FF and FG of Greece since the 1970's, doling out the spoils of office and the public purse among their supporters with little regard to any fiscal rules or constraints.
 

luggage

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I wonder what Peerse Doherty will make of all this?

Wasn't he out there in solidarity with them a while back shooting his gob off about how we should emulate their policies?

If anyone listened to him they'd hardly vote for SF today.

Oh, wait, the voters are disappearing in their droves.
So the voters basically elected the Greek version of FF, and you somehow think it's Sinn Fein's fault?
 

davidcameron

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I think the OP title is nonsense.

This is a defeat for a political party in a Democratic election in one country that has been through a long and punishing economic crisis. An economic crisis, by the way, brought about by corrupt neo-liberal capitalism (and other factors).

Alexis Tsipras was faced with the unenviable task of steering Greece through its worst crisis in 50 years, since the regime of the Colonels was overthrown. I think historians will say the lad did good.

The Greek economy has got itself back to a modest level of growth, so it is not surprising voters might be impatient and desire a change.

Greek Economic Growth Rate: for the last 10 years.

View attachment 18925
Tsipras led voters up the garden path with the referendum that he held only for him to disregard the result. Considering the punishing conditions for the bailout, would Greece have been any worse off if it had left both the Eurozone and the EU itself? Greece could then have started again by reverting to the drachma.
 

davidcameron

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That would be the same New Democracy Party as 2007, who had a second term?

Parliamentary elections were held in Greece on Sunday, September 16, 2007, to elect the 300 members of the Hellenic Parliament. The leading party for a second term was New Democracy under the leadership of Kostas Karamanlis with 41.83%, followed by George Papandreou and Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) with 38.10%. New Democracy managed to secure an absolute but narrow majority of 152 out of 300 parliament seats. The populist Popular Orthodox Rally entered the parliament for the first time with 10 seats, while the parties of the left, the Communist Party of Greece (KKE) and the Coalition of the Radical Left (SYRIZA), enjoyed a significant increase in their votes. KKE got 8.15% of the votes (from 5.89) and secured 22 parliament seats (from 12) and SYRIZA got 5.04% of the votes (+1.78%) and 14 seats.

The OP shows his ignorance of the situation in Greece both prior to the Financial crash, and post crash. It was Centralist Governments that were in power when the crash happened.
The centrists were working on getting Greece out of the hole it had dug itself into but, of course, Tsipras came along and made promises he couldn't bring himself to keep - the charlatan!
 

owedtojoy

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Tsipras led voters up the garden path with the referendum that he held only for him to disregard the result. Considering the punishing conditions for the bailout, would Greece have been any worse off if it had left both the Eurozone and the EU itself? Greece could then have started again by reverting to the drachma.
Could have, should have, would have .... the country could also have collapsed into chaos and abject poverty .... and become a failed state.

To now argue there were easier options for Greece is nonsense. As Ireland is still finding, there are no panaceas for problems of high magnitude.

Could Greece have got back to economic growth and paying its own way by an easier route? Doubtful.

No doubt the new government will tweak Tsirpas' policies, but you can bet your life they will not be reversed.
 

Uganda

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So the voters basically elected the Greek version of FF, and you somehow think it's Sinn Fein's fault?
Can't understand how you put that construction on it.

My point is that Peerse at the time was shooting his gob off about what great solutions Syrzia had for Greece, and that we in Ireland should follow the same road.

Luckily we didn't, and had we done so the Sinn Fein vote would be shrinking even faster than it is.
 

midlander12

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Could have, should have, would have .... the country could also have collapsed into chaos and abject poverty .... and become a failed state.

To now argue there were easier options for Greece is nonsense. As Ireland is still finding, there are no panaceas for problems of high magnitude.

Could Greece have got back to economic growth and paying its own way by an easier route? Doubtful.

No doubt the new government will tweak Tsirpas' policies, but you can bet your life they will not be reversed.
You are right, of course, but the point is that Tsipras and Syriza were elected on a grossly irresponsible and incoherent platform of defying the EU and IMF and basically defaulting while still somehow staying in the Euro. The fact that they then abjectly caved in, on the very night they had won a referendum on that same platform, only re-emphasises their opportunism. They also wrecked what limited signs of recovery existed in Greece in early 2015 and probably delayed the current (very slow) recovery by 2-3 years. So, nul points and good riddance.
 

Tacitus

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You are right, of course, but the point is that Tsipras and Syriza were elected on a grossly irresponsible and incoherent platform of defying the EU and IMF and basically defaulting while still somehow staying in the Euro. The fact that they then abjectly caved in, on the very night they had won a referendum on that same platform, only re-emphasises their opportunism. They also wrecked what limited signs of recovery existed in Greece in early 2015 and probably delayed the current (very slow) recovery by 2-3 years. So, nul points and good riddance.
All true, and history will not be kind to him because of these facts, though in all fairness Tsipras did achieve one particulary good thing when he solved the name dispute with North Macedonia. That was a brave thing to do (considering the domestic opppsition) but it will help normalize the Greek-North Macedonian relations and add stability to the region.
 

making waves

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A political leader implements the slash and burn policies of the neo-liberal troika - and right-wing hacks imply that he is a 'socialist'.

By that logic Enda Kenny was a raving communist.

By the way - the Greek electoral system is grossly undemocratic - the party with the most votes gets a 50 seat bounce in parliament. That means that a party can get a very small vote and get a massive seat bounce. ND have benefited from this undemocratic measure this election - without it they wouldn't have a majority.
 

midlander12

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A political leader implements the slash and burn policies of the neo-liberal troika - and right-wing hacks imply that he is a 'socialist'.

By that logic Enda Kenny was a raving communist.

By the way - the Greek electoral system is grossly undemocratic - the party with the most votes gets a 50 seat bounce in parliament. That means that a party can get a very small vote and get a massive seat bounce. ND have benefited from this undemocratic measure this election - without it they wouldn't have a majority.
It's being abolished for the next election apparently.
 


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