Fury at depiction of 'consensual' rape in BBC TV series.

O

Oscurito

This kind of scene was once a lot more common in fictional TV series. A man would try to force himself sexually on a woman. At first she would physically and verbally resist. He'd become more forceful and start to overpower her. Eventually, she surrenders to his advances and they proceed to have sex. Obviously, the full scene wasn't shown but the storyline was clear: when the man forced himself and bullied her enough, the woman submitted and they proceed to have 'consensual' sex.

It was not a positive message to be broadcasting. We should be moving towards a set of values where no is taken to mean 'no' - not an invitation for more physical and verbal coercion, and it's a long time since I've come across a scene. However, last night on BBC's Poldark, such a scene was shown and the reaction today has been one of fury.

There was an element of sanitzation (guy is very good-looking, there apparently wasn't much violence shown) but the message was still the same: no doesn't always mean no.

The Guardian: Prettifying the Poldark rape doesn't make it OK. Elizabeth said no

EDIT AT 17:36h ON 25-OCT-2016.THIS IS THE SCENE (OR PART THEREOF) IN QUESTION


[video=youtube;Iv7cR35eZ1g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv7cR35eZ1g[/video]
 
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ger12

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Happened to watch it last night (not sure what the people see in what I thought was a wooden period drama).

It's based on a book isn't it? Should they have changed the storyline?
 

Jezza15

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ger12

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O

Oscurito

I see a refugee in Germany has had his sentence quashed for raping a ten year old boy in a "sexual emergency," as the judge wasn't completely sure that the boy wasn't asking for it. So, maybe the BBC has a point....


Iraqi refugee who raped a boy in Germany has conviction overturned | Daily Mail Online
I can see the German establishment being slaughtered by their citizens at some point in the not too distant future.

For starters, it happened in Austria.
 

silverharp

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erm its fiction? is this not standard "mills and boom" or have they gone down the its sexy to ask permission at every step says Laci Green?
 

Felixness

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I watched it, and it was not rape anyone who disagrees should watch it again and actually watch the scene. It was rough and passionate but it was not rape and I say that as a woman. The scene was changed from the original series.
 

Dame_Enda

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I don't agree with the article on there bring no grey areas. I don't watch Poldark as its aimed as hypersexualised straight people and I have no wish to see the nude female form.

If there were no grey areas, why do the vast majority of rape accusations by adult women result either in acquittals or no prosecutions?
 
O

Oscurito

I watched it, and it was not rape anyone who disagrees should watch it again and actually watch the scene. It was rough and passionate but it was not rape and I say that as a woman. The scene was changed from the original series.
But surely that's the point that people are making. The woman said "no" several times but with enough bullying and coercion, she gave in. Do you not find that objectionable?
 

Ellen Ripley

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Wasn't there a similar scene in Gone With The Wind, iirc?

Scarlett's piqued about something and spurns Rhett Butler's attentions, but yields eventually and is swept away up that magnificent staircase...

(She was playing hard to get, they love each other really, women never know their own mind, etc)
 
O

Oscurito

Happened to watch it last night (not sure what the people see in what I thought was a wooden period drama).

It's based on a book isn't it? Should they have changed the storyline?
Is this how the story-line progresses?

In any case, a TV producer is not bound to portray everything literally as represented in the book.
 

Felixness

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But surely that's the point that people are making. The woman said "no" several times but with enough bullying and coercion, she gave in. Do you not find that objectionable?
They have a turbulent relationship and it was more a question of her guilt about sleeping with the husband of the woman who lost her own child while saving hers. She had her arms and legs wrapped around him and was clearly enjoying herself. Of course there are grey areas and I'd read lots of ''experts'' who'd seen a preview before the episode was aired state that it was rape. We're talking about something that was set in a different time with different acceptable social norms. What I saw wasn't rape.
 

Dame_Enda

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If that's what's in the scene I recall something similar in the Wolf of Wall Street movie (at least the Netflix version) near the end and no-one mentioned it. Why was that?
 
O

Oscurito

If that's what's in the scene I recall something similar in the Wolf of Wall Street movie (at least the Netflix version) near the end and no-one mentioned it. Why was that?
What do you mean when you say "no-one mentioned it"? No-one in the film or no-one in the media or something else?
 

Dame_Enda

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What do you mean when you say "no-one mentioned it"? No-one in the film or no-one in the media or something else?
The big media and commentators.
 
O

Oscurito

Apparently, this is the original text - in italics.

Did last night's footage go further?

It opens with Poldark breaking into Trenwith through a casement window at night (not dramatically kicking the door open with his foot as Aidan Turner’s Ross does).

He and Elizabeth meet in the hall and he follows her into her bedroom while she is getting a candle (pretty much what happened in the latest TV version). Then they argue. The key part comes at the end of the chapter:

He kissed her. She turned her face away but could not get it far enough around to avoid him.

Her eyes were lit with anger. He'd never seen her like it and he found pleasure in it.

'This is contemptible! I shouldn't have believed it of you! To force yourself. To insult me.'

'I don't like this marriage to George, Elizabeth. I should be glad of your assurance that you'll not go through with it.'

'I love George to distraction and shall marry him next week.'

He caught her again, and this time began to kiss her with intense passion.

She smacked his face so he pinioned her arm.

'You treat me – like a slut.'

'It's time you were so treated.'

'Let me go Ross! You're hateful, horrible!'

'Shall you marry him?'

'Don't! I'll scream! Oh, God, Ross. Please. Tomorrow...'
...

'Ross, you can't intend. Stop! Stop, I tell you.'

But he took no further notice. He lifted her in his arms and carried her to the bed.


What happens next is not described but later in the books Elizabeth remembers the encounter in terms of the “caresses” she receives from Ross that evening.
Poldark: Does Ross rape Elizabeth? Writer Debbie Horsfield and star Aidan Turner discuss the controversial scene
 

Dame_Enda

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Jesus Christ - unbelievable.
That is outrageous. This is the kind of language female rape victims complain about being used against them.by defence teams in rape trials.
 


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