GAA The Masks Slips Yet Again.

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Certainly those who do it to defenceless unarmed prisoners.
Can you produce one statement from the Bureau of Military History or one by a British soldier describing IRA Volunteers armed with hatchets during the period? No, because it didn't happen. You will find bucket loads of examples of soldiers who were injured in ambushes but survived the attacks. You may have had a case if you claimed you believed survivors were shot at Kilmichael, but it's impossible to prove definitively, and falsifying witness statements as Hart did doesn't solve anything.
 


Antóin Mac Comháin

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Wasn't that the unionist killers in the Shankill Butchers?
There are no comparisons as all of their attacks were against civilians, and the original claim about the Kilmichael Ambush is that the survivors were executed, not that they were attacked with hatchets.
 

Newrybhoy

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Can you produce one statement from the Bureau of Military History or one by a British soldier describing IRA Volunteers armed with hatchets during the period? No, because it didn't happen. You will find bucket loads of examples of soldiers who were injured in ambushes but survived the attacks. You may have had a case if you claimed you believed survivors were shot at Kilmichael, but it's impossible to prove definitively, and falsifying witness statements as Hart did doesn't solve anything.
Given there were no survivors, we'll never know.
 

Glaucon

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Didn't The Irish State weep collectively when Hitler blew his brains out?
It's worth delving a little deeper on this point. De Valera was notoriously prickly about etiquette and perceptions of "respect" and he felt that the U.S. representative in Dublin, David Gray, was openly hostile to him and his government (indeed, he went as far as asking the U.S. government to remove Gray from his position on more than one occasion despite the fact that Gray was close to Roosevelt).

It is well-known by now that the Irish state cooperated with the Allies during the conflict (providing weather reports for D-Day, interning German airmen who ended up in Irish territory whilst escorting Allied personnel back across the border to the UK, and so forth). De Valera offered condolences on behalf of the Irish state to the German representative in Dublin, Eduard Hempel, upon Hitler's death as a means of signalling to Gray in particular that the Irish state was independent and entitled to act as such in foreign affairs. It should also be noted that De Valera had a close personal relationship with Hempel, unlike Gray.

It looks atrocious in hindsight and makes it seem as if De Valera was a Hitler sympathizer but, while he had many serious faults, this is quite inaccurate. Aside from anything else, De Valera was a devout Catholic and strongly objected to the Nazi treatment of the Roman Catholic Church and dissenting Archbishops.

Rabbi Issac Cohen, former Chief Rabbi of Ireland, wrote to the Irish Times in 2005 on the topic:

I discussed this question with President de Valera and he explained to me that, owing to the difficult situation in the relationship of the Irish Republic with Britain at the time, he felt unable to join Britain in the Allied war against Germany, and, like many other small nations, he chose to maintain a state of neutrality. He said he had severely condemned the Nazi persecution of the Jewish people and he had conveyed this to the German ambassador.

His message of condolence on the death of Hitler was merely an official act which was required by diplomatic protocol and was no judgment on the righteousness of German actions. In fact there were a number of occasions when his neutrality leaned toward the Allied cause. When President Roosevelt died he paid a very warm tribute to him at a special meeting of the Dáil.

I understood his "troublesome" diplomatic situation, and I accepted it.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Given there were no survivors, we'll never know.
You don't know, but that didn't stop you from claiming that..

..the Ira hacked wounded prisoners to death with hatchets..
If you are genuinely interested in what did and what didn't happen during that period, I'd suggest reading the statements from the Bureau of Military History, as it doesn't leave any room for revisionism and propaganda, and you can draw your own conclusions on events. If you read 10-20 statements from Cork IRA Volunteers, you will get a rounded view of what took place and the type of weapons they used. Half of the Munster IRA joined because of conscription, and left following the end of the crisis. The 3rd/4th in Command of the Limerick Brigade of the IRA was actually a serving British soldier who returned to their ranks. It can be all too easy to fall into the trap of looking at history through a Hollywood lens. As far as they were concerned, a shot in the legs was just as effective as a shot in the head, with the object being to disable as many of their men as possible, as opposed to killing as many as possible.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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The IRA was very successful if every attack was such a total victorys.
The British sent transport trucks with open tops, and were forced to replace them when their weakness was exposed, the object was then to expose the weakness of the armored personnel carriers by creating roadblocks and attacking the soldiers when they left their vehicles, using guns which mostly fired single rounds. By the end of the WOI they were sending tanks designed for trench warfare.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Just as the British State wept collectively when Stalin passed away. People in glass houses should not throw stones.
The States had a mutual defense policy, but apart from that, it's still a silly claim to make as British Intelligence shared the same view as German Intelligence, in regard to the IRA and the Nazi's, presuming that the poster mixed Tom Barry up with Seán Russell. It's impossible to account for everyone, and I'm sure there are people who support the IRA and share the view of Abbas and the GrandMufti, but it's neither of them. Abbas believes the Holocaust never happened, and the GrandMufti was allied to Hitler, and then the British after WW2 had ended.
 
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peader odonnell

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Cadet Cecil Guthrie survived the ambush, went to a local house for help and was shot with his own gun.His body was returned to his family in 1927.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Cadet Cecil Guthrie survived the ambush, went to a local house for help and was shot with his own gun.His body was returned to his family in 1927.
'Guthrie was identified as the member of the Auxiliaries who had previously murdered the uninvolved civilian Séamus Ó Liatháin in Ballymakeerahe.'

Kid gloves had ever been the problem.
'In Tom Barry’s own words, he told his men before the action that, “the fight could only end in the smashing of the Auxiliaries or the destruction of the flying column… The Auxiliaries were killers without mercy. If they won, no prisoners would be brought back to Macroom. The alternative now was to kill or be killed; see to it that those terrorists die and are broken”. - Kilmichael, Co. Cork, November 1920 – The Irish War
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Reprisals | Documentary on One | RTÉ Radio 1

'Set in South Galway against the backdrop of one of the bloodiest months of the Irish War of Independence, Reprisals tells the dramatic story of the short life and tragic death of 24-year-old Eileen Quinn who was shot outside her home in 1920.'
 

Mickeymac

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That is simply a slogan. Good for a poster but you are not explaining what you mean.

No way will he admit that murdering innocent men, women and children was the British and their unionist proxies policy of putting pressure on the RA to halt their campaign against occupation.
 


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